5 ms·

That part kind of surprised me: I figured pretty much every job (even internships) makes you sign some sort of noncompete agreement these days.

by allo37 5y ago

michaelmrose 5y ago
Repl.it is based in California where noncompetes are especially difficult to enforce. https://www.callahan-law.com/are-non-competes-enforceable-in-california/ https://www.callahan-law.com/are-non-competes-enforceable-in... Specifically California Business and Professions Code Section 16600, “every contract by which anyone is restrained from engaging in a lawful profession, trade, or business of any kind is to that extent void.” In addition such issues must by law be decided in California courts and if they forced the issue into court and lost they would be liable for the cost of his defense. Even outside of California there are limits to what you can enforce. Judges aren't liable to find that an infinite duration noncompete reasonable. Another example in Washington State its now impossible to obtain noncompetes for anyone paid less than a rate of 100k per annum as an employee or 250k per annum as a contractor and they are limited to 18 months duration. If you improperly assert a noncompete you are liable for 5000 or actual damages whichever is greater. They are probably not asserting a noncompete because it is functionally impossible for them to do so. They would have to assert that he was making use of trade secrets or that in some nebulous way his design belonged to them. eg trade dress https://www.findlaw.com/smallbusiness/intellectual-property/can-i-trademark-the-appearance-of-my-website.html https://www.findlaw.com/smallbusiness/intellectual-property/... The answer is you need a lawsuit to decide but probably not.
- allo37 5y ago
  I don't live anywhere near California (Québec), but it's kinda the same idea here (from what I've heard). Basically employees have the right to make a living and the onus is on the employer to prove an injury occured directly due to an (ex)employee's actions. Still didn't stop everyone I've ever worked for from making me sign them, enforceable or not. I guess it's different elsewhere.
  - michaelmrose 5y ago
    He might have signed one but it would be legally invalid and if pressed in court it would cease to exist in 0.5 seconds it wouldn't be worth the time to present.
- jfrunyon 5y ago
  I fail to see how "you can't copy our product" is the same as "restrain[ing] from engaging in a lawful profession, trade, or business of any kind". (That also says nothing about whether such a contract has or has not been signed by the relevant parties.)
  - michaelmrose 5y ago
    As always seem to need a lawyer to be absolutely sure about any complex matter of law but it looks to me like creating even an identical product which this is not would fall within the scope of "any lawful profession, trade, or business of any kind" for clarity I read that as you can't stop a person from doing any of the above from a b and c rather than you can't stop someone from doing all of a b c. I don't think Repl.it has a leg to stand on they just have a pile of money and the presumption of being willing and able to hire a shark in a suit to ruin someone's life with a baseless suit filed for the sake of harassment.
    - jfrunyon 5y ago
      Copyright infringement is not a lawful profession, trade, or business.
      - michaelmrose 5y ago
        It's not clear to me that implementing the same concept after having seen and written some of their code constitutes copyright infringement. If you hire an intern to work on your code base you own merely own the work that person creates for the duration of their internship. Your piddling money doesn't buy you the general knowledge of how such a solution works any more than an auto shop acquires by dint of buying a few hours of labor owns the mechanics understanding of how a transmission works.
        jfrunyon 5y ago
        Have you ever reimplemented something from scratch, perhaps in a different language, and ended up doing something in the same way as the original code? ... I sure have. I would think that a few chunks of very similar code, and a well-paid expert testifying, plus the fact that he had knowledge of Replit's code from his employment, would go a long way towards a tough time in court for both parties. (Or, at the very least, that they both need to talk to lawyers before/when they start throwing around legal threats...)

That part kind of surprised me: I figured pretty much every job (even internships) makes you sign some sort of noncompete agreement these days.

by allo37 5y ago

That part kind of surprised me: I figured pretty much every job (even internships) makes you sign some sort of noncompete agreement these days.

michaelmrose 5y ago

Repl.it is based in California where noncompetes are especially difficult to enforce. https://www.callahan-law.com/are-non-competes-enforceable-in-california/ https://www.callahan-law.com/are-non-competes-enforceable-in... Specifically California Business and Professions Code Section 16600, “every contract by which anyone is restrained from engaging in a lawful profession, trade, or business of any kind is to that extent void.” In addition such issues must by law be decided in California courts and if they forced the issue into court and lost they would be liable for the cost of his defense. Even outside of California there are limits to what you can enforce. Judges aren't liable to find that an infinite duration noncompete reasonable. Another example in Washington State its now impossible to obtain noncompetes for anyone paid less than a rate of 100k per annum as an employee or 250k per annum as a contractor and they are limited to 18 months duration. If you improperly assert a noncompete you are liable for 5000 or actual damages whichever is greater. They are probably not asserting a noncompete because it is functionally impossible for them to do so. They would have to assert that he was making use of trade secrets or that in some nebulous way his design belonged to them. eg trade dress https://www.findlaw.com/smallbusiness/intellectual-property/can-i-trademark-the-appearance-of-my-website.html https://www.findlaw.com/smallbusiness/intellectual-property/... The answer is you need a lawsuit to decide but probably not.

allo37 5y ago
I don't live anywhere near California (Québec), but it's kinda the same idea here (from what I've heard). Basically employees have the right to make a living and the onus is on the employer to prove an injury occured directly due to an (ex)employee's actions. Still didn't stop everyone I've ever worked for from making me sign them, enforceable or not. I guess it's different elsewhere.
- michaelmrose 5y ago
  He might have signed one but it would be legally invalid and if pressed in court it would cease to exist in 0.5 seconds it wouldn't be worth the time to present.
jfrunyon 5y ago
I fail to see how "you can't copy our product" is the same as "restrain[ing] from engaging in a lawful profession, trade, or business of any kind". (That also says nothing about whether such a contract has or has not been signed by the relevant parties.)
- michaelmrose 5y ago
  As always seem to need a lawyer to be absolutely sure about any complex matter of law but it looks to me like creating even an identical product which this is not would fall within the scope of "any lawful profession, trade, or business of any kind" for clarity I read that as you can't stop a person from doing any of the above from a b and c rather than you can't stop someone from doing all of a b c. I don't think Repl.it has a leg to stand on they just have a pile of money and the presumption of being willing and able to hire a shark in a suit to ruin someone's life with a baseless suit filed for the sake of harassment.
  - jfrunyon 5y ago
    Copyright infringement is not a lawful profession, trade, or business.
    - michaelmrose 5y ago
      It's not clear to me that implementing the same concept after having seen and written some of their code constitutes copyright infringement. If you hire an intern to work on your code base you own merely own the work that person creates for the duration of their internship. Your piddling money doesn't buy you the general knowledge of how such a solution works any more than an auto shop acquires by dint of buying a few hours of labor owns the mechanics understanding of how a transmission works.
      - jfrunyon 5y ago
        Have you ever reimplemented something from scratch, perhaps in a different language, and ended up doing something in the same way as the original code? ... I sure have. I would think that a few chunks of very similar code, and a well-paid expert testifying, plus the fact that he had knowledge of Replit's code from his employment, would go a long way towards a tough time in court for both parties. (Or, at the very least, that they both need to talk to lawyers before/when they start throwing around legal threats...)