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> Launched in 2017, Dave is an app used to help Americans avoid billions of dollars in overdraft fees charged by traditional banks. Honestly my bank hasn't cha

> Launched in 2017, Dave is an app used to help Americans avoid billions of dollars in overdraft fees charged by traditional banks. Honestly my bank hasn't charged me an overdraft fee in years. Is that unusual? Is Dave more for unbanked or underbanked folks?

arbuge 5y ago
You're probably not their target market.
- bliteben 5y ago
  Looks like the target market is to separate investors from their money.
  - Guest42 5y ago
    Even an account with a few grand in it will lead to pressured calls from tellers to enroll in investment services, at least from one major us bank.
- RC_ITR 5y ago
  The only comment needed in 99% of HN discussions
mattferderer 5y ago
In my experience it has only happened when I had multiple transactions in the same day & the ones that dropped my account to low were recorded first. Usually if you have enough money in a different account with the bank you can just ask them what happened & most smaller banks will remove the fee.
- mc32 5y ago
  There used to be an urban legend that banks would process transactions to produce deficits if possible in order to assess a penalty. I'm not sure if that was true or not though. balance 100 deposit 500 check 400 would be re-arranged to: balance 100 check 400 deposit 500 So they could hit you with overdraft fees.
  - chrisbolt 5y ago
    https://www.forbes.com/sites/halahtouryalai/2013/06/11/yes-banks-are-reordering-your-transactions-and-charging-overdraft-fees/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/halahtouryalai/2013/06/11/yes-b... > JPMorgan Chase says its policy is laid out in its Deposit Agreement which is available without a login. Transactions orders can vary by state. (See page 7 of the link beneath "Overdrafts".) Citi says it recently launched a program that simplifies the overview of account policies and outlines the fact that check and ACH transactions are processed in the order of smallest to largest to help minimize overdraft fees. So not quite “to produce deficits if possible”, but certainly more convoluted than it should be, which is why the CFPB got involved.
  - ceejayoz 5y ago
    It wasn’t an urban legend. The CFPB banned it, but it was quite common. https://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/12/your-money/customers-can-lose-when-banks-shuffle-payments.html https://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/12/your-money/customers-can-... > The report scrutinized the practices of 44 of the largest banks based on deposits. It found that half still reorder transactions from the largest amount to the smallest amount — known as “high to low” posting — rather than processing them either from the smallest to largest amount, or in chronological order. High-to-low posting tends to result in fees being applied to several smaller amounts, rather than one fee applied to a single, larger amount. (from 2013)
  - croutonwagon 5y ago
    I worked netsec for a small regional bank. They absolutely did this. Ive always been more of a credit union type of person. But working in that sector made me feel predatory and like a carpetbagger, event though I wasn’t directly interfacing with these people.. I left the banking sector after a couple years.
toomuchtodo 5y ago
JP Morgan Chase made $1.5 billion from overdraft fees last year. https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/jamie-dimon-elizabeth-warren-overdraft-fees-1172610/ https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/jamie-di...
- ac29 5y ago
  According to Elizabeth Warren. Their CEO disputed that. Neither party, nor this article appears to have cited any actual sources.
  - toomuchtodo 5y ago
    It’s confirmed by Bloomberg. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-06-01/dimon-took-heat-but-regional-banks-rely-most-on-overdraft-fees https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-06-01/dimon-too... (1.2% of JPMC 2020 revenue, which was about $120B)
  - umeshunni 5y ago
    They probably made 1/1024th of that, but that was enough for Elizabeth Warren to claim it.

arbuge 5y ago

You're probably not their target market.

bliteben 5y ago
Looks like the target market is to separate investors from their money.
- Guest42 5y ago
  Even an account with a few grand in it will lead to pressured calls from tellers to enroll in investment services, at least from one major us bank.
RC_ITR 5y ago
The only comment needed in 99% of HN discussions

mattferderer 5y ago

In my experience it has only happened when I had multiple transactions in the same day & the ones that dropped my account to low were recorded first. Usually if you have enough money in a different account with the bank you can just ask them what happened & most smaller banks will remove the fee.

mc32 5y ago
There used to be an urban legend that banks would process transactions to produce deficits if possible in order to assess a penalty. I'm not sure if that was true or not though. balance 100 deposit 500 check 400 would be re-arranged to: balance 100 check 400 deposit 500 So they could hit you with overdraft fees.
- chrisbolt 5y ago
  https://www.forbes.com/sites/halahtouryalai/2013/06/11/yes-banks-are-reordering-your-transactions-and-charging-overdraft-fees/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/halahtouryalai/2013/06/11/yes-b... > JPMorgan Chase says its policy is laid out in its Deposit Agreement which is available without a login. Transactions orders can vary by state. (See page 7 of the link beneath "Overdrafts".) Citi says it recently launched a program that simplifies the overview of account policies and outlines the fact that check and ACH transactions are processed in the order of smallest to largest to help minimize overdraft fees. So not quite “to produce deficits if possible”, but certainly more convoluted than it should be, which is why the CFPB got involved.
- ceejayoz 5y ago
  It wasn’t an urban legend. The CFPB banned it, but it was quite common. https://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/12/your-money/customers-can-lose-when-banks-shuffle-payments.html https://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/12/your-money/customers-can-... > The report scrutinized the practices of 44 of the largest banks based on deposits. It found that half still reorder transactions from the largest amount to the smallest amount — known as “high to low” posting — rather than processing them either from the smallest to largest amount, or in chronological order. High-to-low posting tends to result in fees being applied to several smaller amounts, rather than one fee applied to a single, larger amount. (from 2013)
- croutonwagon 5y ago
  I worked netsec for a small regional bank. They absolutely did this. Ive always been more of a credit union type of person. But working in that sector made me feel predatory and like a carpetbagger, event though I wasn’t directly interfacing with these people.. I left the banking sector after a couple years.

toomuchtodo 5y ago

JP Morgan Chase made $1.5 billion from overdraft fees last year. https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/jamie-dimon-elizabeth-warren-overdraft-fees-1172610/ https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/jamie-di...

ac29 5y ago
According to Elizabeth Warren. Their CEO disputed that. Neither party, nor this article appears to have cited any actual sources.
- toomuchtodo 5y ago
  It’s confirmed by Bloomberg. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-06-01/dimon-took-heat-but-regional-banks-rely-most-on-overdraft-fees https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-06-01/dimon-too... (1.2% of JPMC 2020 revenue, which was about $120B)
- umeshunni 5y ago
  They probably made 1/1024th of that, but that was enough for Elizabeth Warren to claim it.