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Guys, I don’t know what this is about yet, but I know amjad (ceo). And I know that whatever is going on here, his intentions were pure. He’s proven himself to m

Guys, I don’t know what this is about yet, but I know amjad (ceo). And I know that whatever is going on here, his intentions were pure. He’s proven himself to me that he’s pretty much the opposite of a sleezy corporate ceo who crushes intern side projects while twirling his mustache. I just wanted to encourage everybody to chill on it for a moment and wait to see what’s up, because my spidey senses are screaming “miscommunication / crossed wires” rather than malicious intent, for what it’s worth. EDIT: Fuck. https://i.imgur.com/cFYq7Nv.png https://i.imgur.com/cFYq7Nv.png I'm going offline for awhile to focus on family matters. Evidently, I am not a good judge of character, and I need to stop believing in people without really knowing them.

efxz 5y ago
Take a minute and read before posting, because you are really wrong here buddy...
tgv 5y ago
It doesn't scream miscommunication to me. It's of course possible to save face claiming that, but they're talking about the very same thing, IMO.
juped 5y ago
Are you aware of how statements like these look to those on the outside of whatever particular good old boys club it is you're referencing here?
verall 5y ago
Hey, you might want to chat with him if you know him, since it seems like he has a personal issue with "copycats". I don't think he was twirling a moustache, but it seems like the idea of being cloned is very personal to Amjad, and he gets emotional about it. You see this both in this exchange and in previous tweets about "copycats".
Mizza 5y ago
When will society learn the lesson that people's goodness and "pureness" is based on the actions they take, and not on the opinions they hold or the manner they hold in private company.
- sillysaurusx 5y ago
  In fairness, you’re absolutely right. I’ve even see this play out from the other side, where everybody thinks X is pure and noble, but X was doing worrisome things when no one was looking. But look at this from an “out of body” perspective for a moment. Isn’t it just a little convenient that the first thing you read, right at the top of that blog post, is also the most cartoonishly evil thing? Are you absolutely certain that we’re not missing some crucial context here? How often have we seen this kind of outrage where, later on, it turns out that was a lot more complicated than we’d originally assumed? All that said, yes, you’re correct. And that’s really all that matters. But I can think of a few other things that might be going on (admittedly, I have to be pretty creative to think of something plausible, but they do exist). I’ll keep reading and start asking around. Maybe the cartoonishly evil thing is the true thing, but if it’s not, at least I won’t have fallen for it. (And it it was the true thing, I will be hat in hand with apologies. Heck, I’d be the first to bring a pitchfork if this was true at face value.)
celeritascelery 5y ago
It sure screams of malicious intent. It would take a redaction/clarification from the CEO to prove otherwise. But my guess is he will try to ignore it and hope the problem goes away without too much brand impact. Would love to be wrong about that.
minimaxir 5y ago
The miscommunication angle could have been argued after the first emails. But once double downs and legal threats ensue, Hanlon's Razor doesn't apply.
wdb 5y ago
Directly threaten a person with a lawsuit without any remediation is just wrong.
cole-k 5y ago
Well, if we want to supply character evidence, I know Radon. And I believe that not only were his intentions good, but also his actions. Although I would still like to hear Amjad’s side of the story.
- sillysaurusx 5y ago
  I just... Amjad has been excellent, and I’ve never gotten the sense he would do something like this. It doesn’t even make sense for him to worry at all, let alone to send legal threats. Replit is at “early google/Microsoft vibes,” as pg put it. It would be hard for anything to kill replit, unless they do it themselves. I saw this pop up while I was out driving to the gas station, but I was so shocked that I wanted to urge caution. Now that I’m back, I too will look carefully at all sides. Thank you for vouching for Radon — it helps to know that this isn’t just someone with a chip on their shoulder making up stories. Admittedly, if I have to reach for “maybe it’s a lie,” it’s not looking great. But the fair thing to do is to wait and hear from amjad. What kind of stuff have you done together? I haven’t worked directly with Amjad, but some years ago I almost joined, and we’ve since thrown around ideas for how to use ML to build some great tooling at replit. He strikes me as extremely reasonable, and I’ve seen him change his mind from talking with him. (It wasn’t just a technical plan that he changed his mind about; it was a tricky social situation thing.) I didn’t get the sense he would stomp on someone. I agree it’s possible I was off the mark, and if so, I’ll readjust. But I believe in him. So I won’t let myself be dragged to a certain judgement without listening to the other side of the story first, no matter how bad it looks. But it’s fair if other people don’t feel that way. It’s just, the inside situation often looks much, much different, y’know? It’s good to wait and see.
  - carapace 5y ago
    > But the fair thing to do is to wait and hear from amjad. This. I feel it's likely your GP comment will turn out to be the most constructive one on this whole thread. It seems like a clear case of bullying, but if Amjad is like you describe then one must postulate some additional factor(s) to account for his behaviour. I'm reminded of a story I once heard about a sweet little old lady who suddenly became highly irascible and it turned out she had lead poisoning. These things happen. God forbid, it could be a brain tumor.
ChicagoBoy11 5y ago
That's correct, and OP himself feared as much. But Amjad explicitly refused an offer to uncross those wires. As much as the benefit of the doubt should still be given and this may indeed just be a miscommunication issue, at that juncture he really has no one to blame but himself for this fallout.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
samatman 5y ago
This doesn't look to me like one of those cases where new information is going to come to light. Nor do I want to commit the fundamental attribution error, like 80% of this thread. Even though there are a few other people offering personal experiences of Amjad rubbing them the wrong way. That tends to happen in a thread of this character. Here's my best guess: your friend had a bad day and fucked up. Then he doubled down, and now it's out in the open. Good news is, this is salvageable. He's not getting MeTooed, he didn't embezzle money or steal code. He got paranoid and bullied a former intern. I think a simple apology and some self reflection would go a long way here. There will always be a mob which takes that as blood in the water, and will say awful things on Twitter. But the bulk of the community, the people who matter, will notice, and accept it if it's sincere.
- teraflop 5y ago
  > I think a simple apology and some self reflection would go a long way here. The CEO is continuing to double down today, more than 2 months after the original conversation, so I'm not sure that's likely: https://twitter.com/amasad/status/1401957368510906369 https://twitter.com/amasad/status/1401957368510906369
  - iabacu 5y ago
    This is bizarre. If the intern did steal code, the CEO only wants the project to be taken down? Any IP agreement worth their salt would require Replit to send a formal/legal request asking the intern to destroy and return any stolen IP. So I call bullshit on the CEO, and the intern should probably sue Replit for slander.
    - gpm 5y ago
      > should probably sue Replit for slander. If the CEO is making the stealing part up (seems likely) the intern probably could sue Replit. Intentional copyright infringement/trade secret violations are a crime and my understanding of US law (not a lawyer) is that that makes it actionable regardless of damages. Should he though? If he wins it seems likely he'll get nominal damages. He'll have invested a huge number of hours of his life into it. He'll be risking being on the hook for some or all of his lawyers fees depend on how the judge feels about awarding costs. It doesn't seem likely to be worth it. Public shaming of Replit like this is a very cost effective way of punishing Replit... the legal system not so much.
amjadtwofaced 5y ago
You really don’t know him. He’s as dishonest and two faced as they come.
drusepth 5y ago
Uhhhh... side note: you only gave him 5 minutes to respond according to those timestamps. Going offline for a bit is probably a good idea if only for the passage of time; if I were him (especially in a time where shit is hitting the fan), I'd want to take some time to think things through before responding to anyone, even friends.
- sillysaurusx 5y ago
  I had the exact same reaction, and even briefly panic'd that that might be the case. I saw some DMs come in, and I was like "he's going to give some reasonable explanation, isn't he?" But those DMs were other people. I got silence. And I spent all day pondering what the hell had just happened. You're right. This is the first time I've ever posted someone's DMs without their consent. And yet for the life of me, I can't bring myself to feel even slightly bad about it. In that vein, I'll post here what I DM'ed him with five minutes ago. https://gist.github.com/shawwn/150f2711efc1d4a7821806ec23aeb2ca https://gist.github.com/shawwn/150f2711efc1d4a7821806ec23aeb... I don't know whether he'll listen. And me making it public will make it even harder for him to listen. But you know what? I felt the switch flip from "on" to "off" for "do I care whatsoever about repl.it?" And that's sad. I was... just, such a huge fan. Still might end up one. People usually feel like "yeah! fuck this dude! I hope X bad thing happens to them!" in situations where there's a lot of outrage. But all I feel is sorrow. I grew up on HN, and by extension YC's mission, since HN = YC was true from 2007 til ... 2015-ish, I think. That's around the time the cynical masses truly overwhelmed the YC founders, and they all fled off to Bookface. Who wouldn't? I've been curious about bookface not because of "oh look, a bunch of powerful people are here," but because "man, I bet so many interesting conversations happen there. I wonder what they're like." pg and jessica forged YC's reputation by hand, from day one till now. It was not easy. And I hate that this incident has made me question whether I was falling for an intelligent rich person's selfish ploy this entire time, and all those words about earnestness (http://paulgraham.com/earnest.html http://paulgraham.com/earnest.html) and niceness (http://paulgraham.com/mean.html http://paulgraham.com/mean.html) were just a siren's song for the young and the naive. Thankfully, I know I'm not wrong about pg being genuine. he writes lisp. amsad writes js. :) the only other thing I want to say is, I'm so sorry to Radon for casting so much suspicion, and making up completely crazy theories. You didn't do anything wrong. I was wrong. Keep on building stuff, and everything will work out.
neweggrma 5y ago
>Evidently, I am not a good judge of character, and I need to stop believing in people without really knowing them. I seriously hope this sticks with you. I've let a lot of my frustration with HN and other social media go when I've realized that people are not good judges of characters of others. God damn people fall for scams, charlatans and more all the time. I spent much of high school frustrated because one of my closer friends was just a constant grifter and no one could ever see through it despite my innards constantly screaming ALERT ALERT ALERT. STOP GOING TO BAT FOR STRANGERS, FOLKS. And when people tell you and show you who they are fucking believe them. --- oh man this is the kind of stuff that eats at me. I have a better sense of tech than most (adopted Rust, K8s and crypto 3+ years before they were on anyone's radar), but I also don't fall for this shit. Do you not realize how cringe it is to watch you fall over yourself for yet another egostistic SV megalomaniac. nothing about replit is that unique either, to hear the way y'all jerk off about is... well holy shit no one there's a contingency of us still refusing to go back to the industry. I'd rather shoot myself. Nothing about replit is unique. I don't know how to stress that more. Give me $50K and Theia and I could make a MVP that apparently stupid VCs would be dying to fund.
Stratoscope 5y ago
You shared in public a screenshot of a private conversation? (Yes, I know, Radon did it too. Still rubs me the wrong way.)

efxz 5y ago

Take a minute and read before posting, because you are really wrong here buddy...

tgv 5y ago

It doesn't scream miscommunication to me. It's of course possible to save face claiming that, but they're talking about the very same thing, IMO.

juped 5y ago

Are you aware of how statements like these look to those on the outside of whatever particular good old boys club it is you're referencing here?

verall 5y ago

Hey, you might want to chat with him if you know him, since it seems like he has a personal issue with "copycats". I don't think he was twirling a moustache, but it seems like the idea of being cloned is very personal to Amjad, and he gets emotional about it. You see this both in this exchange and in previous tweets about "copycats".

Mizza 5y ago

When will society learn the lesson that people's goodness and "pureness" is based on the actions they take, and not on the opinions they hold or the manner they hold in private company.

sillysaurusx 5y ago
In fairness, you’re absolutely right. I’ve even see this play out from the other side, where everybody thinks X is pure and noble, but X was doing worrisome things when no one was looking. But look at this from an “out of body” perspective for a moment. Isn’t it just a little convenient that the first thing you read, right at the top of that blog post, is also the most cartoonishly evil thing? Are you absolutely certain that we’re not missing some crucial context here? How often have we seen this kind of outrage where, later on, it turns out that was a lot more complicated than we’d originally assumed? All that said, yes, you’re correct. And that’s really all that matters. But I can think of a few other things that might be going on (admittedly, I have to be pretty creative to think of something plausible, but they do exist). I’ll keep reading and start asking around. Maybe the cartoonishly evil thing is the true thing, but if it’s not, at least I won’t have fallen for it. (And it it was the true thing, I will be hat in hand with apologies. Heck, I’d be the first to bring a pitchfork if this was true at face value.)

celeritascelery 5y ago

It sure screams of malicious intent. It would take a redaction/clarification from the CEO to prove otherwise. But my guess is he will try to ignore it and hope the problem goes away without too much brand impact. Would love to be wrong about that.

minimaxir 5y ago

The miscommunication angle could have been argued after the first emails. But once double downs and legal threats ensue, Hanlon's Razor doesn't apply.

wdb 5y ago

Directly threaten a person with a lawsuit without any remediation is just wrong.

cole-k 5y ago

Well, if we want to supply character evidence, I know Radon. And I believe that not only were his intentions good, but also his actions. Although I would still like to hear Amjad’s side of the story.

sillysaurusx 5y ago
I just... Amjad has been excellent, and I’ve never gotten the sense he would do something like this. It doesn’t even make sense for him to worry at all, let alone to send legal threats. Replit is at “early google/Microsoft vibes,” as pg put it. It would be hard for anything to kill replit, unless they do it themselves. I saw this pop up while I was out driving to the gas station, but I was so shocked that I wanted to urge caution. Now that I’m back, I too will look carefully at all sides. Thank you for vouching for Radon — it helps to know that this isn’t just someone with a chip on their shoulder making up stories. Admittedly, if I have to reach for “maybe it’s a lie,” it’s not looking great. But the fair thing to do is to wait and hear from amjad. What kind of stuff have you done together? I haven’t worked directly with Amjad, but some years ago I almost joined, and we’ve since thrown around ideas for how to use ML to build some great tooling at replit. He strikes me as extremely reasonable, and I’ve seen him change his mind from talking with him. (It wasn’t just a technical plan that he changed his mind about; it was a tricky social situation thing.) I didn’t get the sense he would stomp on someone. I agree it’s possible I was off the mark, and if so, I’ll readjust. But I believe in him. So I won’t let myself be dragged to a certain judgement without listening to the other side of the story first, no matter how bad it looks. But it’s fair if other people don’t feel that way. It’s just, the inside situation often looks much, much different, y’know? It’s good to wait and see.
- carapace 5y ago
  > But the fair thing to do is to wait and hear from amjad. This. I feel it's likely your GP comment will turn out to be the most constructive one on this whole thread. It seems like a clear case of bullying, but if Amjad is like you describe then one must postulate some additional factor(s) to account for his behaviour. I'm reminded of a story I once heard about a sweet little old lady who suddenly became highly irascible and it turned out she had lead poisoning. These things happen. God forbid, it could be a brain tumor.

ChicagoBoy11 5y ago

That's correct, and OP himself feared as much. But Amjad explicitly refused an offer to uncross those wires. As much as the benefit of the doubt should still be given and this may indeed just be a miscommunication issue, at that juncture he really has no one to blame but himself for this fallout.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

samatman 5y ago

This doesn't look to me like one of those cases where new information is going to come to light. Nor do I want to commit the fundamental attribution error, like 80% of this thread. Even though there are a few other people offering personal experiences of Amjad rubbing them the wrong way. That tends to happen in a thread of this character. Here's my best guess: your friend had a bad day and fucked up. Then he doubled down, and now it's out in the open. Good news is, this is salvageable. He's not getting MeTooed, he didn't embezzle money or steal code. He got paranoid and bullied a former intern. I think a simple apology and some self reflection would go a long way here. There will always be a mob which takes that as blood in the water, and will say awful things on Twitter. But the bulk of the community, the people who matter, will notice, and accept it if it's sincere.

teraflop 5y ago
> I think a simple apology and some self reflection would go a long way here. The CEO is continuing to double down today, more than 2 months after the original conversation, so I'm not sure that's likely: https://twitter.com/amasad/status/1401957368510906369 https://twitter.com/amasad/status/1401957368510906369
- iabacu 5y ago
  This is bizarre. If the intern did steal code, the CEO only wants the project to be taken down? Any IP agreement worth their salt would require Replit to send a formal/legal request asking the intern to destroy and return any stolen IP. So I call bullshit on the CEO, and the intern should probably sue Replit for slander.
  - gpm 5y ago
    > should probably sue Replit for slander. If the CEO is making the stealing part up (seems likely) the intern probably could sue Replit. Intentional copyright infringement/trade secret violations are a crime and my understanding of US law (not a lawyer) is that that makes it actionable regardless of damages. Should he though? If he wins it seems likely he'll get nominal damages. He'll have invested a huge number of hours of his life into it. He'll be risking being on the hook for some or all of his lawyers fees depend on how the judge feels about awarding costs. It doesn't seem likely to be worth it. Public shaming of Replit like this is a very cost effective way of punishing Replit... the legal system not so much.

amjadtwofaced 5y ago

You really don’t know him. He’s as dishonest and two faced as they come.

drusepth 5y ago

Uhhhh... side note: you only gave him 5 minutes to respond according to those timestamps. Going offline for a bit is probably a good idea if only for the passage of time; if I were him (especially in a time where shit is hitting the fan), I'd want to take some time to think things through before responding to anyone, even friends.

sillysaurusx 5y ago
I had the exact same reaction, and even briefly panic'd that that might be the case. I saw some DMs come in, and I was like "he's going to give some reasonable explanation, isn't he?" But those DMs were other people. I got silence. And I spent all day pondering what the hell had just happened. You're right. This is the first time I've ever posted someone's DMs without their consent. And yet for the life of me, I can't bring myself to feel even slightly bad about it. In that vein, I'll post here what I DM'ed him with five minutes ago. https://gist.github.com/shawwn/150f2711efc1d4a7821806ec23aeb2ca https://gist.github.com/shawwn/150f2711efc1d4a7821806ec23aeb... I don't know whether he'll listen. And me making it public will make it even harder for him to listen. But you know what? I felt the switch flip from "on" to "off" for "do I care whatsoever about repl.it?" And that's sad. I was... just, such a huge fan. Still might end up one. People usually feel like "yeah! fuck this dude! I hope X bad thing happens to them!" in situations where there's a lot of outrage. But all I feel is sorrow. I grew up on HN, and by extension YC's mission, since HN = YC was true from 2007 til ... 2015-ish, I think. That's around the time the cynical masses truly overwhelmed the YC founders, and they all fled off to Bookface. Who wouldn't? I've been curious about bookface not because of "oh look, a bunch of powerful people are here," but because "man, I bet so many interesting conversations happen there. I wonder what they're like." pg and jessica forged YC's reputation by hand, from day one till now. It was not easy. And I hate that this incident has made me question whether I was falling for an intelligent rich person's selfish ploy this entire time, and all those words about earnestness (http://paulgraham.com/earnest.html http://paulgraham.com/earnest.html) and niceness (http://paulgraham.com/mean.html http://paulgraham.com/mean.html) were just a siren's song for the young and the naive. Thankfully, I know I'm not wrong about pg being genuine. he writes lisp. amsad writes js. :) the only other thing I want to say is, I'm so sorry to Radon for casting so much suspicion, and making up completely crazy theories. You didn't do anything wrong. I was wrong. Keep on building stuff, and everything will work out.

neweggrma 5y ago

>Evidently, I am not a good judge of character, and I need to stop believing in people without really knowing them. I seriously hope this sticks with you. I've let a lot of my frustration with HN and other social media go when I've realized that people are not good judges of characters of others. God damn people fall for scams, charlatans and more all the time. I spent much of high school frustrated because one of my closer friends was just a constant grifter and no one could ever see through it despite my innards constantly screaming ALERT ALERT ALERT. STOP GOING TO BAT FOR STRANGERS, FOLKS. And when people tell you and show you who they are fucking believe them. --- oh man this is the kind of stuff that eats at me. I have a better sense of tech than most (adopted Rust, K8s and crypto 3+ years before they were on anyone's radar), but I also don't fall for this shit. Do you not realize how cringe it is to watch you fall over yourself for yet another egostistic SV megalomaniac. nothing about replit is that unique either, to hear the way y'all jerk off about is... well holy shit no one there's a contingency of us still refusing to go back to the industry. I'd rather shoot myself. Nothing about replit is unique. I don't know how to stress that more. Give me $50K and Theia and I could make a MVP that apparently stupid VCs would be dying to fund.

Stratoscope 5y ago

You shared in public a screenshot of a private conversation? (Yes, I know, Radon did it too. Still rubs me the wrong way.)