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What part are you saying is a lie? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molotov%E2%80%93Ribbentrop_Pact https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molotov%E2%80%93Ribbentrop_Pac..

• myth_drannon 5y ago
  "Germany was USSR's ally in their planned occupation of Europe." That's a lie/hyperbole that is being pushed in the last decade or so. Although I imagine every country had some plans of occupying Europe at some point or another, saying USSR was planning on occupying it based on Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact is lie.
  • throwaway210222 5y ago
    So: 1. what was exactly (and please be specific) was the Soviet military's objective after moving 600,000 – 800,000 troops, in 33 divisions with ~5,000 guns, 4,700 tanks, and 3,300 aircraft onto Polish soil on 17 September 1939? 2. were say the USA to land a similar expeditionary force in Russia tomorrow, what would you call it?
    • myth_drannon 5y ago
      Nothing here again implies occupation of Europe. More like fear. You can also mention mass executions of its army officers corps. Red army was weak, disorganized and lagging technologically. Does it really signals an army that is about to occupy Europe? Was Poland a Nazi ally with intention of occupying Europe when it amassed its army in Czechoslovakia?
    • anigbrowl 5y ago
      Stalin certainly had expansionist ambitions, but Poland isn't Europe and historically its boundaries have gone through numerous changes. Europe's history is one of numerous countries struggling for territorial and military control of the others.
    • waypoint100 5y ago
      What you call "Poland" was in fact western Ukraine and western Belorussia which were cowardly occupied by Poland in early 20s. USSR just restored control over them.
  • baybal2 5y ago
    > I imagine every country had some plans of occupying Europe at some point or another, saying USSR was planning on occupying it based on Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact is lie. Well, Stalin saying this, on record, many times, also told "American lies?" The giant USSR's military buildup prior to WW2 was for fighting whom? Stalin did not believe his own spies telling him Hitler was planning an attack on him.
  • kubanczyk 5y ago
    Right, but in spirit of responding to the strongest interpretation of a preceding comment, it's rather hard to miss how advanced were the talks in November 1940. It was not the lack of planning, but rather too much of it. I am talking about official diplomatic notes, all the evidence remains documented. Citing the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German%E2%80%93Soviet_Axis_talks#Soviet_counterproposal_agreement https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German%E2%80%93Soviet_Axis_tal...: > Stalin directed Molotov to draft a new pact with a much greater scope, including the division of Europe, Asia and Africa among the four powers [i.e. USSR, Germany, Italy, Japan]. On November 25, the same day as the surprise statement of Soviet nonresistance to Bulgaria's joining the Axis and a potential Soviet joining of the pact [sic], the Soviets offered a counterproposal to Ribbentrop's draft agreement. It began, "The Soviet government is prepared to accept the draft of the Pact of Four Powers on political cooperation and economic mutual assistance". [...] > On several occasions, Molotov asked German officials for their response to Moscow's counterproposals, but Germany never answered them. > Regarding the counterproposal, Hitler remarked to his top military chiefs that Stalin "demands more and more", "he's a cold-blooded blackmailer" and "a German victory has become unbearable for Russia"... Also, I'm not saying that these talks were honest - they were diplomacy after all. But none of the sides were in the "minding my own business" business.
  • nl 5y ago
    It is fair to say it is exaggerated somewhat, but none the less the Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact did divide Europe into "spheres of influence" which included the redrawing of other countries borders: To this public pact of nonaggression was appended a secret protocol, also reached on August 23, 1939, which divided the whole of eastern Europe into German and Soviet spheres of influence. Poland east of the line formed by the Narew, Vistula, and San rivers would fall under the Soviet sphere of influence. The protocol also assigned Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia, and Finland to the Soviet sphere of influence and, further, broached the subject of the separation of Bessarabia from Romania. A secret supplementary protocol (signed September 28, 1939) clarified the Lithuanian borders. The Polish-German border was also determined, and Bessarabia was assigned to the Soviet sphere of influence. In a third secret protocol (signed January 10, 1941, by Count Friedrich Werner von Schulenberg and Molotov), Germany renounced its claims to portions of Lithuania in return for Soviet payment of a sum agreed upon by the two countries. https://www.britannica.com/event/German-Soviet-Nonaggression-Pact https://www.britannica.com/event/German-Soviet-Nonaggression...
• eaa 5y ago
  The part that's implying that it was the first and only attempt of someone to postpone the war. 1. Occupation of Czechoslovakia - Poland happily took part in this. Does it count as dividing Europe together with nazis? 2. Munich agreement between nazi Reich and UK and France. Does it count as dividing Europe together with nazis?
  • baybal2 5y ago
    The future would be Allies did not really believe they were postponing anything. A big part of the Western establishment was happily planning for chummy future in Europe with Hitler, and things he did. Of course when the war came, and German attacked not some Czechoslovakia, but France — a Great Power, and made aggression towards GB, and USA, everybody instantly picked a barely believable narrative about them not doing so. And yes, they soiled their pants. Chamberlain locked himself in his cabinet and drank for days.