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I also grew up in a rural high school with a large farming population. I categorize farmers into three types: 1. Professional - Usually highly educated, good b

I also grew up in a rural high school with a large farming population. I categorize farmers into three types: 1. Professional - Usually highly educated, good business sense. Probably obtained an advanced degree in agriculture science, though not always, some self-educate very successfully. These farmers generally do not like John Deere and think they are overpriced, not as good as they once were, and find the lack of right to repair infuriating. 2. Uneducated - Likely barely passed high school due to a complete lack of effort, because they were going to be farmers and school, "couldn't teach them nothin." Farming is an identity for these individuals. Buying a John Deere is part of that lifestyle. Some kids grow up with a Ferrari on their wall, these kids had a John Deere tractor. The problem with these individuals as it relates to business is that they do not understand business or accounting and probably only have a rudimentary understanding of ag science. They overspend on equipment and their only basic ag science understanding leaves them unable to adapt as well as the pros to droughts, infestations, and other adverse conditions. 3. Gentleman Farmers - Usually educated, but perhaps in an unrelated field. Farming is a hobby. Perhaps a retirement "job." If they make money, great, if not, well, they have money to spare. They buy John Deere, because they can afford it and because it seems like the obvious choice. They are happy to pay their local dealer to fix or repair their tractor, it is something they don't have to worry about and costs are not a real going concern. Breaking even is a success. Both the less educated farmers and the gentleman farmers treat John Deere tractors as a status symbol (every other farmer know exactly how much a John Deere tractor costs). And when you know how much they cost it is like seeing someone drive by in a Ferrari or Lamborghini, because, well, they cost as much as a Ferrari or Lamborghini, if not more. The professional farmers could care less because they are running a business.

throwaway292893 5y ago
Wow. What an incredibly offensive comment. I love how HN understands the right to repair when it comes to their gadgets, but when it comes to tractors it's probably because the farmers are uneducated hicks. Please tell me more how they don't understand AG science enough, but you have such a strong grasp on it. JD tractors were and are reliable and top tier in quality, that's why they are popular and that's why people stick to the brand. I've built Kioti tractors when I was teenager. They'd do the job if you had to use it, but it's no JD in terms of quality. Farmers just want the quality they've always had with JD but the ability to fix simple stuff like they used to without it costing them an arm and a leg. The stereotypes you listed off don't sound like anyone I've ever experienced. They sound like caricatures you painted in your head with your lack of understanding.
- etempleton 5y ago
  I am sorry you took offense to the comment, it was not meant to be offensive. I never claimed to have any grasp on agriculture science. And I never called anyone a "hick." And of course I am speaking in generalities. Simply observing what I saw growing up. I grew up on a small farm (though I certainly would never call myself a farmer) and grew up with farmers of all types and all income levels. Some chose to be willfully ignorant and not really learn how to run the family business even though that was their end goal and some did. I don't think this was a matter of capacity of the individuals. Some of those that were willfully ignorant were quite well off and some were not quite as well off. Some took a formal route to education, some self studied. It is simple anecdotal observation that some of the more successful farmers I know a). Educated themselves one way or another. b). Those same farmers, for the most part, have started or have already moved away from John Deere. Largely due to the right to repair issues, in part due to the premium cost, but some of the farmers that I have talked to have relayed to me that they feel the quality has dropped, which is perhaps not reality, simply their perception based on frustrations surrounding right to repair. John Deere has also rapidly expanded their product categories and not all of their new products share the same famous reliability as their ag products, which could negatively impact overall perception of the brand.
  - throwaway292893 5y ago
    The tone of your comment changed dramatically in this reply. You didn't have to say hick, you implied it with your uneducated rant. You simply don't understand why they want a John Deere, and it's not because they are uneducated. Also, maybe never try to shove people into categories, especially only 3 categories. Especially one category being "uneducated". You reached all that from a topic about repairing tractors and their choice of brand. Think about that. Your "anecdote" doesn't match my experience and it lines up with an outsider perspective with a dash of elitism. You said you don't know anything about AG science, so how could you judge others knowledge of it?
    - etempleton 5y ago
      I appreciate your feedback. I phrased poorly. By uneducated I never meant formal education exclusively. There are many ways to learn and I personally find self study to be the most effective. And I am sorry I came across as elitist, I grew up lower to lower-middle class, and my parents grew up dirt poor. As my mother would say, "you come from a long line of poor farmers." I judge because those students who actively refused to learn were my peers...sometimes my relatives. Again, I would say it was 50/50. Some of those individuals were very well off, and now struggle to manage the farm they inherited. Others grew up in poverty and now have advanced degrees, or have otherwise educated themselves and run a very successful farm or now own a very successful farm.
randomdata 5y ago
4. The BTO (Big Time Operator). Deere has been known to give them very compelling deals that the other manufacturers cannot match. The smaller farmers are more likely to buy used equipment, so this also ensures that when the largest farmers buy Deere, green equipment is what is found on the used lot.
- etempleton 5y ago
  This is a good point. I also wonder if the service agreements start to make a lot more sense for the BTOs due to scale and so they are less likely to be concerned about the right to repair.
  - randomdata 5y ago
    A lot, I dare say even most, of the new equipment is leased to the first generation customers. They will run them for a year, two tops, and then it will go out on the used market for the 'regular' farmers to buy. You won't find much concern about ownership agreements when they are renting the equipment.
- boringg 5y ago
  The biggest operators get it on a deal but the small to mid tail of the curve needs to pay full price but they aspire for the better product - which is where the margins are. Almost a veblen good but not quite by traditional definitions. FWIW the lock-in for farming in terms of equipment and seed product is so bananas to me. Really feels like the large corpos have got everyone squeezed.
throwaway894345 5y ago
> Some kids grow up with a Ferrari on their wall, these kids had a John Deere tractor. John Deere has a significant toy business that has to pay off big time considering how many of these customers they produce (and the toys themselves are quite expensive IIRC).
autokad 5y ago
I also grew up in rural areas, and I agree with throwaway. your comments are condescending and also inaccurate. The more 'uneducated' farmers took pride in fixing their equipment, especially their tractors. Your comments are so far off I wonder if you even grew up in such an area or if you didn't really know your classmates at all. For one thing, who in the heck lives in a rural area knows that many types of farmers. Farms are huge and school district areas are small.
- silexia 5y ago
  We all need to fight for legislation that gives us the right to repair everything from our iPhones to our tractors.
  - tekknik 5y ago
    Well there’s other ways of controlling this besides increased regulation, like using capitalism and stop using JD. But back to the point, your parent stated the person was lying and you defended it. Do you mean to say we must say whatever and lie to advance an agenda?

throwaway292893 5y ago

Wow. What an incredibly offensive comment. I love how HN understands the right to repair when it comes to their gadgets, but when it comes to tractors it's probably because the farmers are uneducated hicks. Please tell me more how they don't understand AG science enough, but you have such a strong grasp on it. JD tractors were and are reliable and top tier in quality, that's why they are popular and that's why people stick to the brand. I've built Kioti tractors when I was teenager. They'd do the job if you had to use it, but it's no JD in terms of quality. Farmers just want the quality they've always had with JD but the ability to fix simple stuff like they used to without it costing them an arm and a leg. The stereotypes you listed off don't sound like anyone I've ever experienced. They sound like caricatures you painted in your head with your lack of understanding.

etempleton 5y ago
I am sorry you took offense to the comment, it was not meant to be offensive. I never claimed to have any grasp on agriculture science. And I never called anyone a "hick." And of course I am speaking in generalities. Simply observing what I saw growing up. I grew up on a small farm (though I certainly would never call myself a farmer) and grew up with farmers of all types and all income levels. Some chose to be willfully ignorant and not really learn how to run the family business even though that was their end goal and some did. I don't think this was a matter of capacity of the individuals. Some of those that were willfully ignorant were quite well off and some were not quite as well off. Some took a formal route to education, some self studied. It is simple anecdotal observation that some of the more successful farmers I know a). Educated themselves one way or another. b). Those same farmers, for the most part, have started or have already moved away from John Deere. Largely due to the right to repair issues, in part due to the premium cost, but some of the farmers that I have talked to have relayed to me that they feel the quality has dropped, which is perhaps not reality, simply their perception based on frustrations surrounding right to repair. John Deere has also rapidly expanded their product categories and not all of their new products share the same famous reliability as their ag products, which could negatively impact overall perception of the brand.
- throwaway292893 5y ago
  The tone of your comment changed dramatically in this reply. You didn't have to say hick, you implied it with your uneducated rant. You simply don't understand why they want a John Deere, and it's not because they are uneducated. Also, maybe never try to shove people into categories, especially only 3 categories. Especially one category being "uneducated". You reached all that from a topic about repairing tractors and their choice of brand. Think about that. Your "anecdote" doesn't match my experience and it lines up with an outsider perspective with a dash of elitism. You said you don't know anything about AG science, so how could you judge others knowledge of it?
  - etempleton 5y ago
    I appreciate your feedback. I phrased poorly. By uneducated I never meant formal education exclusively. There are many ways to learn and I personally find self study to be the most effective. And I am sorry I came across as elitist, I grew up lower to lower-middle class, and my parents grew up dirt poor. As my mother would say, "you come from a long line of poor farmers." I judge because those students who actively refused to learn were my peers...sometimes my relatives. Again, I would say it was 50/50. Some of those individuals were very well off, and now struggle to manage the farm they inherited. Others grew up in poverty and now have advanced degrees, or have otherwise educated themselves and run a very successful farm or now own a very successful farm.

randomdata 5y ago

4. The BTO (Big Time Operator). Deere has been known to give them very compelling deals that the other manufacturers cannot match. The smaller farmers are more likely to buy used equipment, so this also ensures that when the largest farmers buy Deere, green equipment is what is found on the used lot.

etempleton 5y ago
This is a good point. I also wonder if the service agreements start to make a lot more sense for the BTOs due to scale and so they are less likely to be concerned about the right to repair.
- randomdata 5y ago
  A lot, I dare say even most, of the new equipment is leased to the first generation customers. They will run them for a year, two tops, and then it will go out on the used market for the 'regular' farmers to buy. You won't find much concern about ownership agreements when they are renting the equipment.
boringg 5y ago
The biggest operators get it on a deal but the small to mid tail of the curve needs to pay full price but they aspire for the better product - which is where the margins are. Almost a veblen good but not quite by traditional definitions. FWIW the lock-in for farming in terms of equipment and seed product is so bananas to me. Really feels like the large corpos have got everyone squeezed.

throwaway894345 5y ago

> Some kids grow up with a Ferrari on their wall, these kids had a John Deere tractor. John Deere has a significant toy business that has to pay off big time considering how many of these customers they produce (and the toys themselves are quite expensive IIRC).

autokad 5y ago

I also grew up in rural areas, and I agree with throwaway. your comments are condescending and also inaccurate. The more 'uneducated' farmers took pride in fixing their equipment, especially their tractors. Your comments are so far off I wonder if you even grew up in such an area or if you didn't really know your classmates at all. For one thing, who in the heck lives in a rural area knows that many types of farmers. Farms are huge and school district areas are small.

silexia 5y ago
We all need to fight for legislation that gives us the right to repair everything from our iPhones to our tractors.
- tekknik 5y ago
  Well there’s other ways of controlling this besides increased regulation, like using capitalism and stop using JD. But back to the point, your parent stated the person was lying and you defended it. Do you mean to say we must say whatever and lie to advance an agenda?