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the theory that police kill black people because of their skin color is completely bonkers. If you check any publicly available crime stats all police shooting

the theory that police kill black people because of their skin color is completely bonkers. If you check any publicly available crime stats all police shootings were in cases of violent criminals attacking officers or other people, like in recent case of Winston Smith in Minneapolis who shot at officers before being killed, or Jacob Blake who reached for a knife to attack a cop, or Ma’Khia Bryant who was about to attack another girl with a knife, or Rayshard Brooks who attacked a cop with a taser, etc, etc. Few of these cases were tragic accidents like in case of George Floyd whose sick heart just couldn't handle him vigorously resisting arrest (while pumped with lethal dose of fentanyl), or Breyonna Taylor who was standing in a dark hallway besides her boyfriend while he was shooting at officers. The list of BLM "martyrs" is long but none of those cases had anything to do with racism.

cloverich 5y ago
> all police shootings were in cases of violent criminals attacking officers I have seen at least three video's where the victim was shot without provoking police. I understand your angle but think you should re-consider "All" as that is certainly not true. Examples are good but the data are there to make a statistical argument. > anything to do with racism. Interesting. Would you take it further and say the history of racism (and slavery, etc) in America has no effect on today's black person in the US? Just trying to understand where the common ground may be.
- andyxor 5y ago
  All cases I've seen were justified self-defense by cops or cases were police were protecting civilians/bystanders from the armed criminal, or cases where exact cause of death is hard to determine because of multitude of complicating factors like drug overdose and poor health in Floyd case (as per his coroner report). I don't know what is gained by resurrecting the ghosts of racism after decades of civil rights progress, to me it seems like an obvious political fabrication which profile is raised before the elections and soon forgotten. I've heard BLM leaders complain that their cause has been cynically exploited for political gain. Some of them are sincere and i feel bad that such powerful movement was not used to target e.g. poverty, drug addiction or prevalent black-on-black violence but instead turned against police who protect these poor communities from themselves. The last thing they need is reinforcing victim mentality, which BLM movement actively promotes.
  - happytoexplain 5y ago
    >All cases I've seen were justified self-defense Again, you're making subjective determinations based on a small input and declaring that anybody with another opinion is lying. You can make the argument that a given incident was justified or not, but it doesn't follow that desire for change is founded on lies. There is a gigantic wealth of input on this topic, and individual videos of police violence, even if you somehow think every single instance is justified, is still only one part of the picture, first-hand experience and data analysis being just two major examples of other input. I'm not saying this other input proves anything - just, again, that it is unreasonable to assert that the entirety, or even the majority, of the desire for change is based on lies.
    - andyxor 5y ago
      >subjective determinations based on a small input and declaring that anybody with another opinion is lying this is the primary tactic of BLM movement, proclaim a few martyrs for the cause and generalize it to "systemic" phenomenon (and call anyone who disagrees, or brings up facts a "racist"), just like a proper conspiracy theory. The theory could have a seed of legibility if at least these few martyrs so loudly protested for were actually killed because of their race and not because of obvious bad choices they made, like shooting at cops. But that's not the case, if you dig just a bit deeper beyond biased news and manipulated videos omitting context and engineered for outrage. These are fake martyrs and systemically fake movement. If you think there is systemic racism in the US, where is the systemic evidence.
  - cloverich 5y ago
    > All cases I've seen were justified I have also seen many videos that were, as you put it, engineered for outrage. However, I think any claim that "all" were justified is demonstrably untrue, and there are plenty of videos where unarmed or unprovoked shootings occurred (ex: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eRMYVFmEmx8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eRMYVFmEmx8). > ... and poor health in Floyd case I enocurage you to watch the entire video if you have not. Keeping your knee on someone's neck long after they have lost conciousness will always present a health risk. Can you explain the scenario where you would maintain a choke hold after a person has lost consciousness and not expect harm to the individual? > Some of them are sincere and i feel bad that such powerful movement was not used The movement is in its youth and finding its legs, after a likely unexpected swell of support (financial and otherwise). Time will tell if it has a lasting impact that many hope, but I beleive it is too early to predict what its outcome will be either way. Ultimately I fail to see the conspiracy claim. "The election was a fraud" is a conspiracy claim, because it asserts a small group of actors manipulated the outcome of the election (i.e. that they conspired) in a specific way. "Racism persists in a systemic way" in America is more general claim made by a wide variety of individuals and there's no singlular claim as far as I can tell?

cloverich 5y ago

> all police shootings were in cases of violent criminals attacking officers I have seen at least three video's where the victim was shot without provoking police. I understand your angle but think you should re-consider "All" as that is certainly not true. Examples are good but the data are there to make a statistical argument. > anything to do with racism. Interesting. Would you take it further and say the history of racism (and slavery, etc) in America has no effect on today's black person in the US? Just trying to understand where the common ground may be.

andyxor 5y ago
All cases I've seen were justified self-defense by cops or cases were police were protecting civilians/bystanders from the armed criminal, or cases where exact cause of death is hard to determine because of multitude of complicating factors like drug overdose and poor health in Floyd case (as per his coroner report). I don't know what is gained by resurrecting the ghosts of racism after decades of civil rights progress, to me it seems like an obvious political fabrication which profile is raised before the elections and soon forgotten. I've heard BLM leaders complain that their cause has been cynically exploited for political gain. Some of them are sincere and i feel bad that such powerful movement was not used to target e.g. poverty, drug addiction or prevalent black-on-black violence but instead turned against police who protect these poor communities from themselves. The last thing they need is reinforcing victim mentality, which BLM movement actively promotes.
- happytoexplain 5y ago
  >All cases I've seen were justified self-defense Again, you're making subjective determinations based on a small input and declaring that anybody with another opinion is lying. You can make the argument that a given incident was justified or not, but it doesn't follow that desire for change is founded on lies. There is a gigantic wealth of input on this topic, and individual videos of police violence, even if you somehow think every single instance is justified, is still only one part of the picture, first-hand experience and data analysis being just two major examples of other input. I'm not saying this other input proves anything - just, again, that it is unreasonable to assert that the entirety, or even the majority, of the desire for change is based on lies.
  - andyxor 5y ago
    >subjective determinations based on a small input and declaring that anybody with another opinion is lying this is the primary tactic of BLM movement, proclaim a few martyrs for the cause and generalize it to "systemic" phenomenon (and call anyone who disagrees, or brings up facts a "racist"), just like a proper conspiracy theory. The theory could have a seed of legibility if at least these few martyrs so loudly protested for were actually killed because of their race and not because of obvious bad choices they made, like shooting at cops. But that's not the case, if you dig just a bit deeper beyond biased news and manipulated videos omitting context and engineered for outrage. These are fake martyrs and systemically fake movement. If you think there is systemic racism in the US, where is the systemic evidence.
- cloverich 5y ago
  > All cases I've seen were justified I have also seen many videos that were, as you put it, engineered for outrage. However, I think any claim that "all" were justified is demonstrably untrue, and there are plenty of videos where unarmed or unprovoked shootings occurred (ex: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eRMYVFmEmx8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eRMYVFmEmx8). > ... and poor health in Floyd case I enocurage you to watch the entire video if you have not. Keeping your knee on someone's neck long after they have lost conciousness will always present a health risk. Can you explain the scenario where you would maintain a choke hold after a person has lost consciousness and not expect harm to the individual? > Some of them are sincere and i feel bad that such powerful movement was not used The movement is in its youth and finding its legs, after a likely unexpected swell of support (financial and otherwise). Time will tell if it has a lasting impact that many hope, but I beleive it is too early to predict what its outcome will be either way. Ultimately I fail to see the conspiracy claim. "The election was a fraud" is a conspiracy claim, because it asserts a small group of actors manipulated the outcome of the election (i.e. that they conspired) in a specific way. "Racism persists in a systemic way" in America is more general claim made by a wide variety of individuals and there's no singlular claim as far as I can tell?