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"Black Lives Matter" is another popular movement based on complete lies (the "systemic racism" conspiracy theory)

cloverich 5y ago
Can you elaborate on the aspects of "systemic racism" that lead you to classify it as a conspiracy theory? Whom are the conspirators and what are their claims?
- andyxor 5y ago
  the theory that police kill black people because of their skin color is completely bonkers. If you check any publicly available crime stats all police shootings were in cases of violent criminals attacking officers or other people, like in recent case of Winston Smith in Minneapolis who shot at officers before being killed, or Jacob Blake who reached for a knife to attack a cop, or Ma’Khia Bryant who was about to attack another girl with a knife, or Rayshard Brooks who attacked a cop with a taser, etc, etc. Few of these cases were tragic accidents like in case of George Floyd whose sick heart just couldn't handle him vigorously resisting arrest (while pumped with lethal dose of fentanyl), or Breyonna Taylor who was standing in a dark hallway besides her boyfriend while he was shooting at officers. The list of BLM "martyrs" is long but none of those cases had anything to do with racism.
  - cloverich 5y ago
    > all police shootings were in cases of violent criminals attacking officers I have seen at least three video's where the victim was shot without provoking police. I understand your angle but think you should re-consider "All" as that is certainly not true. Examples are good but the data are there to make a statistical argument. > anything to do with racism. Interesting. Would you take it further and say the history of racism (and slavery, etc) in America has no effect on today's black person in the US? Just trying to understand where the common ground may be.
    - andyxor 5y ago
      All cases I've seen were justified self-defense by cops or cases were police were protecting civilians/bystanders from the armed criminal, or cases where exact cause of death is hard to determine because of multitude of complicating factors like drug overdose and poor health in Floyd case (as per his coroner report). I don't know what is gained by resurrecting the ghosts of racism after decades of civil rights progress, to me it seems like an obvious political fabrication which profile is raised before the elections and soon forgotten. I've heard BLM leaders complain that their cause has been cynically exploited for political gain. Some of them are sincere and i feel bad that such powerful movement was not used to target e.g. poverty, drug addiction or prevalent black-on-black violence but instead turned against police who protect these poor communities from themselves. The last thing they need is reinforcing victim mentality, which BLM movement actively promotes.
      - happytoexplain 5y ago
        >All cases I've seen were justified self-defense Again, you're making subjective determinations based on a small input and declaring that anybody with another opinion is lying. You can make the argument that a given incident was justified or not, but it doesn't follow that desire for change is founded on lies. There is a gigantic wealth of input on this topic, and individual videos of police violence, even if you somehow think every single instance is justified, is still only one part of the picture, first-hand experience and data analysis being just two major examples of other input. I'm not saying this other input proves anything - just, again, that it is unreasonable to assert that the entirety, or even the majority, of the desire for change is based on lies.
        andyxor 5y ago
        >subjective determinations based on a small input and declaring that anybody with another opinion is lying this is the primary tactic of BLM movement, proclaim a few martyrs for the cause and generalize it to "systemic" phenomenon (and call anyone who disagrees, or brings up facts a "racist"), just like a proper conspiracy theory. The theory could have a seed of legibility if at least these few martyrs so loudly protested for were actually killed because of their race and not because of obvious bad choices they made, like shooting at cops. But that's not the case, if you dig just a bit deeper beyond biased news and manipulated videos omitting context and engineered for outrage. These are fake martyrs and systemically fake movement. If you think there is systemic racism in the US, where is the systemic evidence.
happytoexplain 5y ago
How can a subjective observation of the behavior of a system with the scale and number of inputs of a modern society with hundred of millions of citizens be a lie or a fact? Only a minority of the details can be reasonably considered definitely false or true, and there are of course many, many details.
glopratchet 5y ago
The U.S. A United States Department of Justice investigation found the 'hands up' claim was inconsistent with the physical and forensic evidence, and the witness testimony surrounding the Brown shooting
myWindoonn 5y ago
Could you explain https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redlining https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redlining without systemic racism?
- KentGeek 5y ago
  And we will hear only crickets on this one...

Can you elaborate on the aspects of "systemic racism" that lead you to classify it as a conspiracy theory? Whom are the conspirators and what are their claims?

andyxor 5y ago
the theory that police kill black people because of their skin color is completely bonkers. If you check any publicly available crime stats all police shootings were in cases of violent criminals attacking officers or other people, like in recent case of Winston Smith in Minneapolis who shot at officers before being killed, or Jacob Blake who reached for a knife to attack a cop, or Ma’Khia Bryant who was about to attack another girl with a knife, or Rayshard Brooks who attacked a cop with a taser, etc, etc. Few of these cases were tragic accidents like in case of George Floyd whose sick heart just couldn't handle him vigorously resisting arrest (while pumped with lethal dose of fentanyl), or Breyonna Taylor who was standing in a dark hallway besides her boyfriend while he was shooting at officers. The list of BLM "martyrs" is long but none of those cases had anything to do with racism.
- cloverich 5y ago
  > all police shootings were in cases of violent criminals attacking officers I have seen at least three video's where the victim was shot without provoking police. I understand your angle but think you should re-consider "All" as that is certainly not true. Examples are good but the data are there to make a statistical argument. > anything to do with racism. Interesting. Would you take it further and say the history of racism (and slavery, etc) in America has no effect on today's black person in the US? Just trying to understand where the common ground may be.
  - andyxor 5y ago
    All cases I've seen were justified self-defense by cops or cases were police were protecting civilians/bystanders from the armed criminal, or cases where exact cause of death is hard to determine because of multitude of complicating factors like drug overdose and poor health in Floyd case (as per his coroner report). I don't know what is gained by resurrecting the ghosts of racism after decades of civil rights progress, to me it seems like an obvious political fabrication which profile is raised before the elections and soon forgotten. I've heard BLM leaders complain that their cause has been cynically exploited for political gain. Some of them are sincere and i feel bad that such powerful movement was not used to target e.g. poverty, drug addiction or prevalent black-on-black violence but instead turned against police who protect these poor communities from themselves. The last thing they need is reinforcing victim mentality, which BLM movement actively promotes.
    - happytoexplain 5y ago
      >All cases I've seen were justified self-defense Again, you're making subjective determinations based on a small input and declaring that anybody with another opinion is lying. You can make the argument that a given incident was justified or not, but it doesn't follow that desire for change is founded on lies. There is a gigantic wealth of input on this topic, and individual videos of police violence, even if you somehow think every single instance is justified, is still only one part of the picture, first-hand experience and data analysis being just two major examples of other input. I'm not saying this other input proves anything - just, again, that it is unreasonable to assert that the entirety, or even the majority, of the desire for change is based on lies.
      - andyxor 5y ago
        >subjective determinations based on a small input and declaring that anybody with another opinion is lying this is the primary tactic of BLM movement, proclaim a few martyrs for the cause and generalize it to "systemic" phenomenon (and call anyone who disagrees, or brings up facts a "racist"), just like a proper conspiracy theory. The theory could have a seed of legibility if at least these few martyrs so loudly protested for were actually killed because of their race and not because of obvious bad choices they made, like shooting at cops. But that's not the case, if you dig just a bit deeper beyond biased news and manipulated videos omitting context and engineered for outrage. These are fake martyrs and systemically fake movement. If you think there is systemic racism in the US, where is the systemic evidence.

happytoexplain 5y ago

How can a subjective observation of the behavior of a system with the scale and number of inputs of a modern society with hundred of millions of citizens be a lie or a fact? Only a minority of the details can be reasonably considered definitely false or true, and there are of course many, many details.

glopratchet 5y ago

The U.S. A United States Department of Justice investigation found the 'hands up' claim was inconsistent with the physical and forensic evidence, and the witness testimony surrounding the Brown shooting

myWindoonn 5y ago

Could you explain https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redlining https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redlining without systemic racism?

KentGeek 5y ago
And we will hear only crickets on this one...