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> Dushman has said he was unaware Auschwitz existed during the war, only learning about the atrocities carried out there in the years after. It's always jarrin
by cholmon 5y ago
> Dushman has said he was unaware Auschwitz existed during the war, only learning about the atrocities carried out there in the years after.
It's always jarring to me, with my modern/simplistic/naive perspective of these major historical events, to consider that the people who lived during and/or participated in these events didn't understand full extent of what they were seeing or what was happening. It totally makes sense, academically...fog of war, slow/spotty spread of information, determining what's propaganda and what's not.
But still, there's something mind-blowing to me about a soldier mowing down the fence at Auschwitz with a tank, but not knowing what the place was.
- SPascareli13 5y agoIt makes me think that some truths may take years, decades to really come out. Things we read today in the news might only become clear in the future, specially politics and such.
- suifbwish 5y agoThere is a theory that the Nazis were just a sub group of a much older and secret group. This group empowered Hitler to become a major distraction while they took control of the worlds economy, shipping and communications in the background. This theory supposed that nazis were completely invented purposely as a group of villains performing evil that no one can ignore. The theory also suggests that the jews were chosen because it was known that it would evoke the largest response from the Christian nations
- Fauntleroy 5y agoCan you cite any of this, or at least give the name of the supposed group?
- myth_drannon 5y agoYou mean the least response? "it would evoke the largest response from the Christian nations" Christian/American/European leaders didn't care at all about jews.
- suifbwish 5y agoThe rock you are hiding under should be analyzed for potential breakthroughs in stealth and soundproofing technology. Christian nations are the biggest supporters of the Jewish ethnostate Israel.
- myth_drannon 5y agonow yes, not during WW2.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- gumby 5y agoThis has definitely always been true. I have never been interested in “breaking news” because it is usually pretty impossible to give it context. Reading the news from a few days or even weeks past helps make clear what matters amd what does not.
- pwg 5y ago> to consider that the people who lived during and/or participated in these events didn't understand full extent of what they were seeing or what was happening. No internet. Television was in its infancy (meaning few even had a television). There were no "24-hour news channels" anywhere. News arrived via newspaper, film short before a movie in a movie theater, or a brief "news update" on a radio station. Information flowed (worldwide) at a snails pace as compared to how quickly we learn of some happening on the other side of the globe today.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- xwdv 5y agoThere are atrocities happening on the other side of the globe right now and many still don’t know.
- throwkeep 5y agoPart of it may also be that people don't want to know. Take the ongoing Uyghur genocide right now, but most are ignoring it. Why isn't it an emergency and headline news every day? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uyghur_genocide https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uyghur_genocide
- decremental 5y agoBecause it's China and the ruling class in America decided it would not be in their interests to press them on the issue. So they spread propaganda to dismiss it as a Conspiracy Theory. Which is the mental short circuit the media uses to shut down any further thought on the matter.
- mxxc 5y agothey're not ignoring it, plenty of countries have been recognising it. the issue is that much of the available information isn't exactly reliable, a lot of the research comes from one single person (an ultra-christian extremist), and plenty of the people who have been detained are leaving from the front door, unlike the armenians in 1895-1925 and the jews in 1943-1945. mosques are still open and there are plenty of videos of 2021 eid al fitr in xinjiang. not saying "there is nothing going on there" and "those incarcerations are complete lies" but the whole thing is fishy, especially considering that there are political motives behind screaming bloody murder – for comparison, there is literally zero western pressure on israel on the occupation issue, and the EU is blatantly ignoring the insane conditions migrants are subjected to on the other side of the EU barriers.
- partiallypro 5y agoWe have plenty of data to prove the camps are real, birth rates among Muslims in the country fell through the floor. People disappear in the night, cities that were once heavy Uighur communities are now devoid of them. We've intercepted shipments of Uighur Muslim hair, etc. It's not to the extreme level of the Holocaust with mass executions, but it is real. China has done a great job of making people frame it as the US/EU lying and the "whataboutism" in your last paragraph. This is also a tactic that Putin loves to use. Using Western shortcomings to justify their own tyranny.
- lostcolony 5y agoWell, oftentimes people don't -want- to know or believe the truth, too. We've seen ample evidence of that recently, with one noted politician even flat out telling his followers a couple years ago that "what you are seeing and reading is not what is happening".
- zahma 5y agoIt does make sense that a soldier didn’t know. On the other hand, the American military knew of Auschwitz and Birkenau, had the opportunity to bomb and incapacitate it, and didn’t apparently at the request of FDR to direct all munitions toward winning the war. His administration was implored by escapees and refugees. One of the greatest tragedies of many during the war.
- bmmayer1 5y agoNot necessarily. The international Red Cross was famously invited to tour Auschwitz[1] where they were given a carefully staged show of how well their prisoners were being treated. Plus prisoners would have been in danger. [1]https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/theresienstadt-red-cross-visit https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/theresiens...
- reaperducer 5y agohad the opportunity to bomb and incapacitate it, and didn’t War is not a video game. Bombing an enemy concentration camp, especially with WWII-era weapons, would mean killing the people you're trying to save.
- ghufran_syed 5y agoWouldn’t bombing the camp kill the prisoners? Or are you suggesting that they could have successfully bombed and “incapacitated” the camp without killing the prisoners? How exactly?
- Grustaf 5y agoHow much do you know about what is going on in North Korea? The little you do know is probably due to it being politically expedient for the US to trot them out as the evil empire.
- colinb 5y agoWell, we could obviously just ask the North Korean emigres who work in our countries. Surely they will tell us the truth? Or the many North Korean tourists who visit Europe and North America? Or indeed the vast numbers of North Korean folks visiting around the world for work purposes? Oh, wait. We can't ask any of those people, because they seem not to exist. Is that because North Korea is so wealthy that no one wants to leave to work elsewhere? Because North Korea is such a utopia that they don't even want to travel overseas? Because their industry is so advanced and self-sufficient that they need no trade deals with others? You don't have to believe everything you read about North Korea, but to dismiss it all as US propaganda without offering a significant countervailing body of evidence is, well, silly.
- Grustaf 5y agoSorry, I was unclear. While I do definitely mistrust US propaganda on North Korea, I don't doubt at all that it's a terrible place to live in every possible way, I have read several books by defectors (and visited numerous communist and post-communist countries). My point was more that the reason we have heard about it is mostly because that suits the Western agenda. Otherwise very few would have any idea about what is going on there. Just like few Americans or even Europeans know much about Transdniestria, a present day communist state in Europe. Or Bhutan, a seemingly very happy little country. Even in the days of Wikipedia and internet news, most people don't know much more about the world than what is convenient for Western media to tell us. All this to say that it's inconceivable that people outside Germany could be pretty ignorant about what was going on in the late 30s.
- baybal2 5y ago> Dushman has said he was unaware Auschwitz existed during the war, only learning about the atrocities carried out there in the years after. Germany was USSR's ally in their planned occupation of Europe, which fortunately never happened. USSR spent the remaining 45 years of its existence erasing the fact Union-Germany military alliance from the history.
- myth_drannon 5y agoYes, and Britain and US were arming Germany to take over USSR and destroy communism. Munich pact allowed Poland and Germany invade Czechoslovakia all with encouragement from Britain. Stop your propaganda lies.
- swebs 5y agoWhat part are you saying is a lie? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molotov%E2%80%93Ribbentrop_Pact https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molotov%E2%80%93Ribbentrop_Pac...
- myth_drannon 5y ago"Germany was USSR's ally in their planned occupation of Europe." That's a lie/hyperbole that is being pushed in the last decade or so. Although I imagine every country had some plans of occupying Europe at some point or another, saying USSR was planning on occupying it based on Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact is lie.
- throwaway210222 5y agoSo: 1. what was exactly (and please be specific) was the Soviet military's objective after moving 600,000 – 800,000 troops, in 33 divisions with ~5,000 guns, 4,700 tanks, and 3,300 aircraft onto Polish soil on 17 September 1939? 2. were say the USA to land a similar expeditionary force in Russia tomorrow, what would you call it?
- 5y ago