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> Tons of people go through life without considering any alternatives to the path they are on, or developing the self-knowledge about what they actually want, w

> Tons of people go through life without considering any alternatives to the path they are on, or developing the self-knowledge about what they actually want, which is a big reason so many people end up so unhappy. This feels like an expression of the "just world" fallacy[1]. It's entirely possible that many of the people stuck in 50hr/week jobs did all of the things you list but didn't get the lucky breaks Tim did and so are still working 50hrs a week. Consider an alternative reality where everybody read 4HWW, took that advice to heart and proceeded to apply it to their life. Would everyone be working 4hrs/week or would you still need some people to work those 40hr/wk jobs that keep the world running? [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just-world_hypothesis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just-world_hypothesis

whitepaint 5y ago
The OP wasn't stating that the world is just. Like at all, nada. You are using a straw man argument.
jurassic 5y ago
> This feels like an expression of the "just world" fallacy[1]. It's entirely possible that many of the people stuck in 50hr/week jobs did all of the things you list but didn't get the lucky breaks Tim did and so are still working 50hrs a week. Saying I'm expressing the just-world fantasy implies I'm casting judgement on people or somehow saying they deserve to suffer in miserable jobs because they made bad choices. I don't think that's what I said at all. Recognizing the reality that everyone has a role (that they may not be aware of) in deciding what to do next is not a moral judgement. Entrepreneurship and becoming wealthy are not requirements to be intentional about work and having a fulfilling life. As an example, my sister is a single mom with an autistic child who worked in fast food for years and of course hated it. She realized she would be much happier if she could work in a healthcare field because she wanted work that made more of a difference to peoples lives. So she busted her ass and took student loans for night classes, and today she's successful as a nurse working every day in an operating room. For her, self-awareness of her desires led to goals and actions led to a much better outcome. > Consider an alternative reality where everybody read 4HWW, took that advice to heart and proceeded to apply it to their life. Would everyone be working 4hrs/week or would you still need some people to work those 40hr/wk jobs that keep the world running? I don't think it's necessary for everyone to achieve the same outcome for something to be a good idea. If you read the book you would know it's not really about working 4hrs/wk but rather about freeing yourself up to pursue work you find fulfilling. I think many more people could do that if they knew it was an option, but I don't think everyone would achieve that. Entrepreneurship is risky and difficult, and many people prefer a more predictable path.
- PaulDavisThe1st 5y ago
  > If you read the book you would know it's not really about working 4hrs/wk but rather about freeing yourself up to pursue work you find fulfilling. I think many more people could do that if they knew it was an option Our world, our economy, our technology, our agriculture, our transportation is FILLED with jobs that very few people would ever find "fulfilling". I prefer a vision of a future/world in which everyone is able to lead fulfilling lives regardless of the work they do. A world in which the value of all work is acknowledged, and in which we recognize that it's not sensible for us to push people towards the idea that their fulfillment will come from the work they do. Eusebi Güell built a small company "village" outside of Barcelona dedicated to the idea that even the cleaning staff should be able to go home after work and listen to opera, admire great art, read great books, enjoy good food amidst a vibrant and engaging social life. It wasn't perfect (and he went bankrupt), but it (like the English Garden Movement that inspired him) were steps in a better direction than "everyone should do what they love". Let's stop pretending that everyone (or even most people, perhaps) can do "fulfilling" work, and focus on how to make it possible for people have fulfilling lives.
acover 5y ago
Our collective productivity has increased almost 3x since 1950. That 40 hr/week could be 13 for everyone but people choose not to structure their lives that way.
- ac29 5y ago
  If we could somehow give up all of the quality of life improvements of the past 70 years without giving up any of the productivity enhancements from the same timeframe, then sure, maybe everyone could work less. But, that doesnt make sense. Banking on my smartphone is more efficient than waiting in line for a teller, but it also means I need sufficient income to pay for the device and the network access (neither of which existed in 1950).
- anemoiac 5y ago
  Do you really think that the reason we don't have 13 hour workweeks is that "people choose not to structure their lives that way?"

whitepaint 5y ago

The OP wasn't stating that the world is just. Like at all, nada. You are using a straw man argument.

jurassic 5y ago

> This feels like an expression of the "just world" fallacy[1]. It's entirely possible that many of the people stuck in 50hr/week jobs did all of the things you list but didn't get the lucky breaks Tim did and so are still working 50hrs a week. Saying I'm expressing the just-world fantasy implies I'm casting judgement on people or somehow saying they deserve to suffer in miserable jobs because they made bad choices. I don't think that's what I said at all. Recognizing the reality that everyone has a role (that they may not be aware of) in deciding what to do next is not a moral judgement. Entrepreneurship and becoming wealthy are not requirements to be intentional about work and having a fulfilling life. As an example, my sister is a single mom with an autistic child who worked in fast food for years and of course hated it. She realized she would be much happier if she could work in a healthcare field because she wanted work that made more of a difference to peoples lives. So she busted her ass and took student loans for night classes, and today she's successful as a nurse working every day in an operating room. For her, self-awareness of her desires led to goals and actions led to a much better outcome. > Consider an alternative reality where everybody read 4HWW, took that advice to heart and proceeded to apply it to their life. Would everyone be working 4hrs/week or would you still need some people to work those 40hr/wk jobs that keep the world running? I don't think it's necessary for everyone to achieve the same outcome for something to be a good idea. If you read the book you would know it's not really about working 4hrs/wk but rather about freeing yourself up to pursue work you find fulfilling. I think many more people could do that if they knew it was an option, but I don't think everyone would achieve that. Entrepreneurship is risky and difficult, and many people prefer a more predictable path.

PaulDavisThe1st 5y ago
> If you read the book you would know it's not really about working 4hrs/wk but rather about freeing yourself up to pursue work you find fulfilling. I think many more people could do that if they knew it was an option Our world, our economy, our technology, our agriculture, our transportation is FILLED with jobs that very few people would ever find "fulfilling". I prefer a vision of a future/world in which everyone is able to lead fulfilling lives regardless of the work they do. A world in which the value of all work is acknowledged, and in which we recognize that it's not sensible for us to push people towards the idea that their fulfillment will come from the work they do. Eusebi Güell built a small company "village" outside of Barcelona dedicated to the idea that even the cleaning staff should be able to go home after work and listen to opera, admire great art, read great books, enjoy good food amidst a vibrant and engaging social life. It wasn't perfect (and he went bankrupt), but it (like the English Garden Movement that inspired him) were steps in a better direction than "everyone should do what they love". Let's stop pretending that everyone (or even most people, perhaps) can do "fulfilling" work, and focus on how to make it possible for people have fulfilling lives.

acover 5y ago

Our collective productivity has increased almost 3x since 1950. That 40 hr/week could be 13 for everyone but people choose not to structure their lives that way.

ac29 5y ago
If we could somehow give up all of the quality of life improvements of the past 70 years without giving up any of the productivity enhancements from the same timeframe, then sure, maybe everyone could work less. But, that doesnt make sense. Banking on my smartphone is more efficient than waiting in line for a teller, but it also means I need sufficient income to pay for the device and the network access (neither of which existed in 1950).
anemoiac 5y ago
Do you really think that the reason we don't have 13 hour workweeks is that "people choose not to structure their lives that way?"