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$900 million = 5 days of federal food stamps spending $3-4 billion = 3 weeks of federal food stamps spending I know which I think is the better government exp
by greenwich26 5y ago
$900 million = 5 days of federal food stamps spending
$3-4 billion = 3 weeks of federal food stamps spending
I know which I think is the better government expenditure
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- luffapi 5y agoYou realize the rich typically feed the poor out of necessity because if they don’t the poor will rise up and murder them, right? People like Bezos and Musk only exist because we allow them to exist. That they pretend to be capitalists while sucking down more government money than anyone, makes them hypocrites at best.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- ben_w 5y agoHungry starving sick people make the least effective revolutionaries. They’re also not very good at spending money on consumer goods when they don’t have any, which Amazon absolutely needs. (Tesla needs a lot of people above average income, given their cheapest offering). And these two giants aren’t the only places people can work. (Not enough by itself, but still a massive improvement compared to the situation leading to the French Revolution). Super-rich as a class exists because we let them exist, but there is a reason we let them exist… and a reason we have things like the SEC and FTC to stomp on them if/when they get out of line.
- luffapi 5y ago> Hungry starving sick people make the least effective revolutionaries. This is clearly historically incorrect. > Super-rich as a class exists because we let them exist, but there is a reason we let them exist… What reason is that? They exist because they are powerful, thus hard to topple. That the SEC and FTC are so ineffective (and ridiculously small pieces of the puzzle) is evidence of that.
- ben_w 5y ago> This is clearly historically incorrect. > What reason is that? How long do you have? https://youtu.be/rStL7niR7gs https://youtu.be/rStL7niR7gs in particular from 13:30 onwards, though the whole thing and the follow up video are both worth watching.
- luffapi 5y agoIf you actually study history (not YouTube, history books) you’ll find starving people and human rights violations to be a common cause for revolution.
- ben_w 5y agoBooks like this?: https://www.amazon.de/Dictators-Handbook-Behavior-Almost-Politics/dp/1610391845 https://www.amazon.de/Dictators-Handbook-Behavior-Almost-Pol... “and” is pulling a lot of weight in your sentence, given I’ve not made a claim about general human rights on this thread. Also? “Common cause” is very different from “has a snowball’s chance in hell of succeeding”, which I consider important in this context.
- luffapi 5y agoNo, not books like that. History books (not pop trash). Books like this: https://www.amazon.com/French-Revolution-Enlightenment-Tyranny/dp/1681772507 https://www.amazon.com/French-Revolution-Enlightenment-Tyran... Also, cf Japanese rice warehouses in early Tokyo and why they exist.
- ben_w 5y ago“Pop trash” sounds like you’re dismissing it out of hand because you don’t like the conclusion. I mean, it might be, but as I’m not even claiming to be a domain expert I have to (argument from authority fallacy notwithstanding) rely on the author biographies as a proxy for how much they know. Now, would you like to give me a brief summary of how, biologically speaking, you recon being malnourished fails to put a bunch of revolutionaries at a relative disadvantage to a non-malnourished bunch of revolutionaries?
- dagw 5y agoHungry starving sick people make the least effective revolutionaries. Surely not. Starving people are desperate people, and desperate people are always dangerous. Fed People with most of their basic needs met and a few luxuries make the least effective revolutionaries since they have little to gain and are terrified of losing the little they have.
- ben_w 5y agoIf that was true, nobody would’ve revolted in Europe since the potato famine (the former Stasi HQ is a short trip from me), and the potato famine would’ve triggered an immediate war for independence in Ireland rather than set one off a generation later. Edit: before anyone suggests food shortages in DDR, based on what I saw in the DDR museum the shortages were of fancy food like coffee rather than staples like bread and potatoes.
- specialist 5y ago> Hungry starving sick people make the least effective revolutionaries. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_food_riots https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_food_riots https://www.history.com/news/bread-french-revolution-marie-antoinette https://www.history.com/news/bread-french-revolution-marie-a... https://slate.com/technology/2014/04/food-riots-and-revolution-grain-prices-predict-political-instability.html https://slate.com/technology/2014/04/food-riots-and-revoluti... History. Read it. > but there is a reason we let them exist Please, do tell.
- ben_w 5y ago> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_food_riots https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_food_riots One revolution in that list (France). One government resigning (Japan). One major change of policy (Egypt). Most of the rest end in some variant of “and then lots of rioters died when the authorities put them down”. > Please, do tell. Because we tried these two ideas, and while both had good points, one of them turned out to be less wrong than the other: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Wealth_of_Nations https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Wealth_of_Nations https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Communist_Manifesto https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Communist_Manifesto
- specialist 5y agoTLDR: We tolerate the super rich because Adam Smith. Illuminating. Thanks.
- dragonwriter 5y ago> Hungry starving sick people make the least effective revolutionaries. This is true, but their visible presence and the risk of joining them often motivates the people in slightly better circumstances to become the most effective ones; the starving masses usually aren't the effective revolutionaries, but their presence often accompanies revolution for that reason.
- greenwich26 5y agoFood stamp recipients are usually obese They can't "rise up" from the couch, do you really think they are going to "rise up" and start a revolution?
- luffapi 5y agoThat’s a ridiculous stereotype. Regardless, how long do you think one can stay obese without food?
- mschuster91 5y agoIt ain't that ridiculous. Poor people can't afford high quality raw ingredients and so more rely on highly processed, high-calorie foods (especially HFCS) that leave them obese.
- ac29 5y agoFood stamp payments might be more than you think. For example, for a household of two people in California, the minimum payment is $430/month [0]. That's not going to be putting fancy food on the table, but its more than beans and rice (or soda and chips). [0] https://www.getcalfresh.org https://www.getcalfresh.org
- ben_w 5y agoI’m not American, but my ex is, and she told me California has unusually good food stamps. Can someone here confirm or refute that?
- luffapi 5y agoThere’s certainly systemic discrimination and exploitation done to the food supply of the poor (e.g. food deserts). Being too fat/lazy to “rise up from the couch” is an ignorant stereotype.
- ben_w 5y agoBased on my visits to the USA, I think that’s mainly because Taco Bell and McD are cheaper than anything even vaguely healthy from any American supermarket. (Regions visited: Central and North California, I-80 highway between SF and Salt Lake City, New York-Newark conurbation, Boston-Providence area)
- Layke1123 5y agoStill a government handout to private corporation.
- enchiridion 5y agoIt's a country investing in infrastructure. A hand out is bailing out failing auto makers, forgiving debt arbitrarily, etc, etc.
- Layke1123 5y agoYou mean forgiving debt of those trying to get an education to build that infrastructure? I wonder who even sets those prices in the first place.
- tehbeard 5y agoAs a counterpoint, $900 million to get rural America actual broadband, where cable companies used similiar handouts to line their own pockets and do nothing... We're in a "Give a man a fish/teach a man to fish" type hypothetical now.
- scotth 5y agoThat's a pretty gross way of thinking. Yuck.
- greenwich26 5y agoNot an argument.
- scotth 5y agoWas your comment an argument? Looked like an opinion. Responded in kind.