4 ms·

I can give you one to illustrate the point I am trying to make. When I first started working in 2005, we used to use Excel 2003. My first company gave me a mode

I can give you one to illustrate the point I am trying to make. When I first started working in 2005, we used to use Excel 2003. My first company gave me a modest desktop with 512MB RAM and old processor. Right clicking on a cell to format it, change font, etc. used to take few milliseconds at most and the window used to appear immediately after the click. Today I have a 16GB machine at work - doing the same operation takes 2-3 seconds to open the window on right click. Given that the reason I would right click has not changed at all over 16 years, I don't see why I should see a 100x degradation in performance using a machine which has 32 times more RAM (and I guess many more cores and processing speed).

chrisan 5y ago
I'm sorry, but something is either up with your computer or the excel sheet you are currently using would be infinitely slower on that old 2005 machine. I've been using computers since Apple IIe and am much happier with things today than versions of the past. There are certainly hiccups along the way, but no way am I going to trade what I have today for what I used in 80s/90s.
- galangalalgol 5y ago
  I've done side by side with excel98 and excel200x whenever they added the ribbon. The same spreadsheet was extensively slower both in the original format and after importing it to the new one. I wouldn't trade out either, because there is still good responsive software out there, but more resources let people get sloppy.
- nebulous1 5y ago
  I still haven't got over the ribbon. That said I don't use MS office so I haven't spent time trying to get used to it, just when I'm helping somebody out
  - meibo 5y ago
    The ribbon was radical, but they've refined it into something that's genuinely nice to use. You can customize every section and it's very easy to pick up, I'm sure if you'd have to spend some time with office nowadays you'd agree. I'd take them over old-style nondescript toolbars by now.
  - squiggleblaz 5y ago
    I don't know if this will help you get over the ribbon. I turn it on in LibreOffice. But tools that are stable and predictable are extremely important to user empowerment and the ribbon dates to about the same timeas artists who care nothing about user empowerment became an important part of software design, and outsted usability engineers, for whom the experience of experts was also one of the matters to consider. To me the ribbon was almost peak UI. It's tainted because it was introduced around the same time that designers started winning the "user friendly" vs "looks pretty" battle, but the ribbon is definitely from the "user friendly" side. They provide large targets, they have icons and text to help remember them better, the button size varies according to relative likelihood, some menu is always open instead of closing as soon as you start doing something. The ribbon was a genuine attempt at giving all users access to a powerful piece of software: a tool to upgrade the mental model of users instead of reaching for the lowest common denominator. The biggest limitation of them seems to be that they don't help teach people the shortcut keys. To me that's not important because I'm never going to use them, but others like them, and by hiding them they've gone from seeming like a utility for experienced users to being a secret for hackers that could be removed at any time. But they seem like a genuine improvement in contrast to the old system of either text-or-icons, absence of meaningful hierarchy, menus that are hard to study because as soon as you interact with them they disappear, or the new system of gratuitously hidden options, secret buttons, and apps which prioritise branding and a sense of eternal instability and change over predictability and approachability.
Dort 5y ago
I assume you are not using Excel 2003 on your 16GB machine. May I ask which version of MS Office you are using? If I have to believe this[1] thread, then Office 365 is now an Electron app, which would explain the slowness. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17300893 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17300893
- radmuzom 5y ago
  I am using Office 2016 Professional (Microsoft does give it away at dirt cheap prices to many corporate employees). Desktop version installed using an .exe.
- xbar 5y ago
  I most live on Macs. But for big spreadsheets, my Microsoft Excel 2010 on a modern Windows PC is blazing fast to open, load, operate and calculate. Sub-400ms and 8.4MB RAM to launch. Sadly, support ended October of 2020, so it's time to find something else before too long. It is not going to be contemporary Office.

chrisan 5y ago

I'm sorry, but something is either up with your computer or the excel sheet you are currently using would be infinitely slower on that old 2005 machine. I've been using computers since Apple IIe and am much happier with things today than versions of the past. There are certainly hiccups along the way, but no way am I going to trade what I have today for what I used in 80s/90s.

galangalalgol 5y ago
I've done side by side with excel98 and excel200x whenever they added the ribbon. The same spreadsheet was extensively slower both in the original format and after importing it to the new one. I wouldn't trade out either, because there is still good responsive software out there, but more resources let people get sloppy.
nebulous1 5y ago
I still haven't got over the ribbon. That said I don't use MS office so I haven't spent time trying to get used to it, just when I'm helping somebody out
- meibo 5y ago
  The ribbon was radical, but they've refined it into something that's genuinely nice to use. You can customize every section and it's very easy to pick up, I'm sure if you'd have to spend some time with office nowadays you'd agree. I'd take them over old-style nondescript toolbars by now.
- squiggleblaz 5y ago
  I don't know if this will help you get over the ribbon. I turn it on in LibreOffice. But tools that are stable and predictable are extremely important to user empowerment and the ribbon dates to about the same timeas artists who care nothing about user empowerment became an important part of software design, and outsted usability engineers, for whom the experience of experts was also one of the matters to consider. To me the ribbon was almost peak UI. It's tainted because it was introduced around the same time that designers started winning the "user friendly" vs "looks pretty" battle, but the ribbon is definitely from the "user friendly" side. They provide large targets, they have icons and text to help remember them better, the button size varies according to relative likelihood, some menu is always open instead of closing as soon as you start doing something. The ribbon was a genuine attempt at giving all users access to a powerful piece of software: a tool to upgrade the mental model of users instead of reaching for the lowest common denominator. The biggest limitation of them seems to be that they don't help teach people the shortcut keys. To me that's not important because I'm never going to use them, but others like them, and by hiding them they've gone from seeming like a utility for experienced users to being a secret for hackers that could be removed at any time. But they seem like a genuine improvement in contrast to the old system of either text-or-icons, absence of meaningful hierarchy, menus that are hard to study because as soon as you interact with them they disappear, or the new system of gratuitously hidden options, secret buttons, and apps which prioritise branding and a sense of eternal instability and change over predictability and approachability.

Dort 5y ago

I assume you are not using Excel 2003 on your 16GB machine. May I ask which version of MS Office you are using? If I have to believe this[1] thread, then Office 365 is now an Electron app, which would explain the slowness. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17300893 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17300893

radmuzom 5y ago
I am using Office 2016 Professional (Microsoft does give it away at dirt cheap prices to many corporate employees). Desktop version installed using an .exe.
xbar 5y ago
I most live on Macs. But for big spreadsheets, my Microsoft Excel 2010 on a modern Windows PC is blazing fast to open, load, operate and calculate. Sub-400ms and 8.4MB RAM to launch. Sadly, support ended October of 2020, so it's time to find something else before too long. It is not going to be contemporary Office.