4 ms·

What a depressing, pessimistic view. Eventually, yes, we can get to the point where most people work fewer hours. But, writing that vision off because "inequali

by afpx 5y ago

What a depressing, pessimistic view. Eventually, yes, we can get to the point where most people work fewer hours. But, writing that vision off because "inequality is baked in" without providing context or thoughtful or innovative solutions seems like a waste of an article, especially one that hits the HN front page. Someone below mentioned self-promotion, and I can see why it seems like it is. Otherwise, what's the motivation of the writer?

shlant 5y ago
the fact that this article has triggered so many in the comments by pointing out an uncomfortable truth (you can call it "pessimistic" if you like, doesn't invalidate the message) shows that (at minimum) it has served a useful purpose of stoking conversation
KaiserPro 5y ago
> Otherwise, what's the motivation of the writer? To point out the snake oil thats being sold here. Its easy to have a four hour work week if you're rich. The motivation of the speaker is to point out that what Tim is espousing is essentially unachievable unless you have a whole bunch of startup capital. It also points out that achieve the four hour week, you need to exploit people, either directly or indirectly. So I'd say the motivation here is moral. > Eventually, yes, we can get to the point where most people work fewer hours. well given that "share of the national profit" movements have been about for almost a hundred years: (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_Credit_Party_of_Great_Britain_and_Northern_Ireland https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_Credit_Party_of_Great_B...) I'd say that the whole limited working week thing is a pipe dream. Well, not as the OP points out without creating a gopher underclass.
- afpx 5y ago
  If it was a moral argument, the author should have done a little bit more work. This reader is not convinced that she added anything useful to the narrative.
  - KaiserPro 5y ago
    which bit wasn't convincing? The bit about requiring an underclass?, or that not everyone can have a 4 hour week? or the requirement to have large financial worth before you can do a four hour week?
    - afpx 5y ago
      For example, your previous comment was more useful to me than her entire article. It educated me about things I didn't know about.
- andreilys 5y ago
  The motivation of the speaker is to point out that what Tim is espousing is essentially unachievable unless you have a whole bunch of startup capital. This is patently false, so many example case studies online and in the revised addition showing how someone was able to implement a 4WW lifestyle. Again it’s not about hitting 4 hours a week specifically, it’s simply a mindset (create systems to support your lifestyle, instead of having your business take over your life). It also points out that achieve the four hour week, you need to exploit people, either directly or indirectly. If I hire a virtual assistant to assist me in my tasks, am I “exploiting” them, or creating job opportunities? Sure I capture the value surplus that they create, but they get a steady salary and take on less risk than the business owner.
  - KaiserPro 5y ago
    > This is patently false, so many example case studies online and in the revised addition showing how someone was able to implement a 4WW lifestyle. First things first, I am not attacking you, or your lifestyle. I've read the case studies on his website, and it basically boils down to: get very successful selling stuff. Once you've done that you don't need to spend time or effort innovating. Now, I've done a fair bit of sales, and to get more sales you either need to capture a niche by the balls, or continually innovate. https://www.tropicalmba.com/10-more-four-hour-work-week-case-studies/ https://www.tropicalmba.com/10-more-four-hour-work-week-case... has a great overview of the strategies. None of those are going to give you a 4 hour work week for a long time, if at all. Its just another extension of the "always be hustling" mindset that is so toxic to great number of people. Look, I am very much for people not working long hours. I want workers rights, I want a working hours cap. I want workers to be mobile. However what Ferriss is advocating is mostly just a fantasy. Launching a company is stressful, innovating is stressful, unless its in an area you love. I have some friends who flew to bali to live that lifestyle, they along with many of their cohort failed. > If I hire a virtual assistant to assist me in my tasks, Are you paying them a fair wage, or an Uber wage? Hint: if you're paying them ~$10-100 a month, then its not really a fair wage.

by afpx 5y ago

shlant 5y ago

the fact that this article has triggered so many in the comments by pointing out an uncomfortable truth (you can call it "pessimistic" if you like, doesn't invalidate the message) shows that (at minimum) it has served a useful purpose of stoking conversation

KaiserPro 5y ago

> Otherwise, what's the motivation of the writer? To point out the snake oil thats being sold here. Its easy to have a four hour work week if you're rich. The motivation of the speaker is to point out that what Tim is espousing is essentially unachievable unless you have a whole bunch of startup capital. It also points out that achieve the four hour week, you need to exploit people, either directly or indirectly. So I'd say the motivation here is moral. > Eventually, yes, we can get to the point where most people work fewer hours. well given that "share of the national profit" movements have been about for almost a hundred years: (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_Credit_Party_of_Great_Britain_and_Northern_Ireland https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_Credit_Party_of_Great_B...) I'd say that the whole limited working week thing is a pipe dream. Well, not as the OP points out without creating a gopher underclass.

afpx 5y ago
If it was a moral argument, the author should have done a little bit more work. This reader is not convinced that she added anything useful to the narrative.
- KaiserPro 5y ago
  which bit wasn't convincing? The bit about requiring an underclass?, or that not everyone can have a 4 hour week? or the requirement to have large financial worth before you can do a four hour week?
  - afpx 5y ago
    For example, your previous comment was more useful to me than her entire article. It educated me about things I didn't know about.
andreilys 5y ago
The motivation of the speaker is to point out that what Tim is espousing is essentially unachievable unless you have a whole bunch of startup capital. This is patently false, so many example case studies online and in the revised addition showing how someone was able to implement a 4WW lifestyle. Again it’s not about hitting 4 hours a week specifically, it’s simply a mindset (create systems to support your lifestyle, instead of having your business take over your life). It also points out that achieve the four hour week, you need to exploit people, either directly or indirectly. If I hire a virtual assistant to assist me in my tasks, am I “exploiting” them, or creating job opportunities? Sure I capture the value surplus that they create, but they get a steady salary and take on less risk than the business owner.
- KaiserPro 5y ago
  > This is patently false, so many example case studies online and in the revised addition showing how someone was able to implement a 4WW lifestyle. First things first, I am not attacking you, or your lifestyle. I've read the case studies on his website, and it basically boils down to: get very successful selling stuff. Once you've done that you don't need to spend time or effort innovating. Now, I've done a fair bit of sales, and to get more sales you either need to capture a niche by the balls, or continually innovate. https://www.tropicalmba.com/10-more-four-hour-work-week-case-studies/ https://www.tropicalmba.com/10-more-four-hour-work-week-case... has a great overview of the strategies. None of those are going to give you a 4 hour work week for a long time, if at all. Its just another extension of the "always be hustling" mindset that is so toxic to great number of people. Look, I am very much for people not working long hours. I want workers rights, I want a working hours cap. I want workers to be mobile. However what Ferriss is advocating is mostly just a fantasy. Launching a company is stressful, innovating is stressful, unless its in an area you love. I have some friends who flew to bali to live that lifestyle, they along with many of their cohort failed. > If I hire a virtual assistant to assist me in my tasks, Are you paying them a fair wage, or an Uber wage? Hint: if you're paying them ~$10-100 a month, then its not really a fair wage.