14 ms·
An Elon / Jeff space willy-waving contest about who gets to be Space Bro Alpha seems like a net win for humanity
by peteretep 5y ago
An Elon / Jeff space willy-waving contest about who gets to be Space Bro Alpha seems like a net win for humanity
- gameswithgo 5y agoAmerican Oligarchs are certainly up to more interesting things than Russian ones at the moment!
- gccs 5y agoYes, like raping kids and blackmailing each other. (Epstein and the gang) Although I wouldn't be suprised if Russia had a similar operation.
- ksec 5y agoIs that the new/modern definition of oligarch, or how oligarch is used in US? I dont see how Jeff or Elon are oligarchs in the sense of russian oligarchs.
- cdmckay 5y agoWhat's the difference between an American oligarch and a Russian oligarch? Aside from the nationality.
- germinalphrase 5y agoLevel of control over governmental functions?
- blendergeek 5y agoOligarch tend to need outsized control over the government in addition to billions of dollars. I don't know if Elon and Jeff have that yet.
- nextstep 5y agoThis seems like an oligarchy to me https://theintercept.com/2021/05/25/jeff-bezos-blue-origin-senate-bailout/ https://theintercept.com/2021/05/25/jeff-bezos-blue-origin-s...
- reissbaker 5y agoRedundancy for NASA funded projects makes sense, and it's how we regained the ability to launch human crewed rockets from US soil: Boeing wanted to be the sole contract, and has bungled their launch projects, and it was due to NASA also contracting SpaceX that we've had any successful launches. When SpaceX was recently awarded a sole contract, plenty of people — including here on HN — howled that NASA was letting SpaceX turn into a monopolist like Boeing tried to become. NASA has historically chosen multiple providers for redundancy, and the SpaceX sole contract was a unique departure due to NASA lacking sufficient funding. https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2021/04/16/nasa-lunar-lander-contract-spacex/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2021/04/16/nasa-lu... The Intercept isn't exactly known for... neutral... reporting.
- cholantesh 5y ago'neutrality' is a mirage, but WaPo isn't known for it, either, and in this context it's an especially egregious choice
- reissbaker 5y agoOkay, here's CBS saying the same thing: NASA always wanted two contracts, and was forced to give up on redundancy on the lunar lander due to their budget getting slashed. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/spacex-wins-2-9-billion-contract-to-build-moon-lander-for-nasas-artemis-program/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/spacex-wins-2-9-billion-contrac... "Agency managers originally hoped to award follow-on HLS contracts to two of the companies to encourage competition and protect against the possibility of major problems or delays that might affect one company but not the other. But Congress only allocated $850 million in NASA's fiscal 2021 budget for lander development, about one quarter of the amount the agency said it needed to have a new vehicle ready by 2024. Given the available money and projected future spending, NASA "down selected" to a single contractor — SpaceX — deciding the California rocket builder offered the most attractive combination of cost, technology and management expertise." Neutrality may always have some element of manufacture, but that doesn't mean it's equivalent to intentionally trying to generate partisan outrage. This isn't a "bailout fund for Jeff Bezos" — word-for-word quote from the headline of the Intercept article! — it's just NASA continuing to try to get budget for the projects it wanted all along, so it can have redundant contractors like it did with the commercial crew program and avoid getting stuck with monopolist pricing (and monopolist poor performance) like it nearly did with Boeing.
- gogopuppygogo 5y agoOne creates businesses that have scale in a quasi open market while the other privatized formerly state run businesses and keeps their position by further supporting the head of the nation in all matters.
- jonplackett 5y agoOligarchs were basically given large existing monopolies and then just sit on them and make money with no reason to innovate. While it’s a fun jibe to throw at them it’s a completely different thing to just being insanely wealthy through actually doing something effectively (if sometimes immorally)
- dalbasal 5y agoIs that what makes an oligarch? The way I use it, oligarch implies political power. You could, in theory, be a poor oligarch.
- tmountain 5y agoAs you said, oligarch implies power, and with power one typically controls resources in a way that wealth can be generated for selfish purposes. The strict definition is something like "ruling by few", but I've always thought of it as rule by the extremely wealthy since that's how it typically seems to play out.
- dalbasal 5y agoSure, they are pretty closely related in pratice. The Senatorial oligarchy of Rome were pretty much also the wealthy of Rome, and often those with military power. Still, the term implies politics... not just money. I would also hazard that it implies hereditary power. You could argue that dynastic politicians are oligarch. I'm not really disputing, just pondering. Ultimately, for both Russians and Americans, oligarch is a (usually derogatory) analogy. It's not a formal oligarchy. We could also say aristocrats, which is more appealing to me. Also, there's an idea that all governments, or systems of power are oligarchies. No matter what the formal system of government, some group of powerful people wield a lot of power. Rich people, religious leaders, senators, backscene power brokers, generals...
- e17 5y agoIMO you have to maintain or exert some control over a nation in order to be an oligarch. So Jeff and Elon are out, but David Koch and Robert Mercer meet the definition for me. These guys have exerted huge control over the US over the last 30-40 years.
- fallingknife 5y agoJeff Bezos owns the 2nd largest newspaper in the country, and now a major movie studio. I would say he qualifies.
- vorpalhex 5y agoJohnny Depp would basically qualify under that definition.
- fallingknife 5y agoAccording to Google his net worth is $150 million, so that is 0.1% of Bezos, and he owns 0 powerful companies to Bezos' 3. Not remotely in the same league.
- Layke1123 5y agoNo, he wouldn't. He ain't a billionaire with significant portions of the economy at his service.
- e17 5y agoHow has he used that newspaper to exert political control over the US?
- papito 5y agoI don’t know, the yachts that have their own yachts look kind of cool. Oh, wait, Bezos is building one for half a bil. Never mind.
- throwaway316943 5y agoIf we could get every billionaire to reinvest their money in world changing technology like Elon we’d live in a much better world. Honestly this is capitalism at its best, how do we do more like this?
- peteretep 5y agoI suspect the Russian ones are up to plenty that's "interesting", but not in a particularly positive way.
- nextstep 5y agoNot sure if you’re being sarcastic, but surely taxpayers subsidizing billionaires’ rocket testing and allowing the gains to be privatized is a net loss for society, no?
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- relativ575 5y agoCan you be specific on the subsidizing? Loaded comments without backed sources are intellectually lazy.
- nabla9 5y ago'google: "SpaceX subsidies" SpaceX gets almost $900 million in federal subsidies to deliver broadband to rural America https://www.cnn.com/2020/12/08/tech/spacex-starlink-subsidies-fcc-scn/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2020/12/08/tech/spacex-starlink-subsidie... SpaceX just won $885 million in federal subsidies to expand Starlink, Elon Musk's satellite-internet project https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/technology/spacex-just-won-dollar885-million-in-federal-subsidies-to-expand-starlink-elon-musks-satellite-internet-project/ar-BB1bInbu https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/technology/spacex-just-won-do... In addition to that SpaceX is government contractor. SpaceX and Blue Origin are the next Boeing/Lockheed. Government gives them both money to R&D so that they don't have just one innovative supplier. Tesla is a great example of government project. Tesla has received $3-4 billion in subsidies. edit: SpaceX has received other direct subsidies. NASA has given seed money and development funding for Dragon, Falcon 9, engines and demonstration launches ($248M at least) https://www.nasa.gov/pdf/453605main_Commercial_Space_Minutes_4_26_2010.pdf https://www.nasa.gov/pdf/453605main_Commercial_Space_Minutes...
- greenwich26 5y ago$900 million = 5 days of federal food stamps spending $3-4 billion = 3 weeks of federal food stamps spending I know which I think is the better government expenditure
- josu 5y agoDon't forget about Richard Branson.
- peteretep 5y agoNice try Richard
- sschueller 5y ago"net win for humanity" can be taken two ways. Elon / Jeff not making it back could also be considered a "win" even if dark. For the good they have done they have done a lot of damage to humanity on their way to become billionaires.
- whitepaint 5y agoWhat damage did they do?
- Ticklee 5y agoManipulated the price of certain crypto, and monopolized e-commerce.
- SergeAx 5y agoYes, that crypto thing was a real damage for humanity.
- Ticklee 5y agoThe people who are hurt by dips whether artificial or not are invariably going to be new, small time investors. Even if you think they shouldn't gamble with their money I find it hard to argue there was no damage done.
- chasd00 5y ago“Willy waving contest” is long over and, ironically, SpaceX’s Gwynne Shotwell is the winner. She’s a super hero in my book. Musk had the dream but she’s turning it into reality which is the hard part.
- sschueller 5y agoI am sorry but some of the stuff she has said is quite nuts. Point to point travel with Starship is never going to happen the way she describes it. A rocket that big makes so much noise you can not launch it at half to ports they listed. If you would launch a Starship on Zürich lake you will blow out every window in the city.
- LargoLasskhyfv 5y agoDoesn't matter. That would be a good incentive to have their windows blast proofed. Which is good for the special glasses industry. And all the workers! And makes turning houses into bunkers so much more easy. The swiss like their bunkers.
- chasd00 5y agopossibly, granted i haven't gone over everything she's said. Her job description of running SpaceX day-to-day balanced with SpaceX's achievements is what makes her pretty amazing in my eyes. Maybe things have changed, maybe she's delegated the day to day ops to someone else. I can't be 100% sure. The people who make it happen are the ones i most admire. It takes a village, i mean you're not getting anywhere without the vision and foresight of people like Musk. You're also not getting anywhere without a leader assembling the right team (which i think is Musk's real talent) but, to me, i most admire the people on the ground making plans, managing/coordinating, and turning wrenches.
- cma 5y agoHer TED thing of point to point rocket travel cheaper than business class plane tickets by 2028 was just embarrassing.
- 5y ago
- 52-6F-62 5y agoI like Mr Burnham's take on the subject: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-7p57mBnVa4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-7p57mBnVa4
- Abishek_Muthian 5y agoI wouldn't be surprised if the Billionaires world over suddenly get in shape here after.
- rags2riches 5y agoJust watch for any purchases of remote volcano islands and large quantities of orange jumpsuits.