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EROEI is not calculated on the energy required to build and transport all the parts required (mining of the resources and the cat food for the cat of the operat

by bullen 5y ago

EROEI is not calculated on the energy required to build and transport all the parts required (mining of the resources and the cat food for the cat of the operator of the truck in the mine etc.) Everything except dead trees and hydro is completely stupid! ERORI on oil has gone from 100/1 to 10/1 in 100 years.

dahart 5y ago
What if the energy used to build and transport were to come from wind, solar and/or hydro? Does it stay stupid in your calculus? Could you post some data and/or resources on where you’re getting your numbers? It sounds surprising and unlikely, because large wind turbines can generate a lot of energy over their lifetimes. Ivanpah solar generates about 850Gwh annually and has been running for 10 years, with many more on the horizon. You are sure 8500 Gwh is less that it took to construct? I’m curious about your claim and willing to hear the research. How are you calculating the energy inputs of manufacture? How are you calculating the lifetime outputs? I tried to Google it and the very first result roundly and soundly counters your claims, and backs it up with real data. https://fullfact.org/online/wind-turbines-energy/ https://fullfact.org/online/wind-turbines-energy/ “A 2010 analysis of fifty separate studies found that the average wind turbine, over the course of its operational life, generated 20 times more energy than it took to produce. This level was “favourable” in comparison to fossil fuels, nuclear and solar power.” And most importantly, is comparing energy in to energy out the right question to ask, and why? If energy in is renewable, then why would it matter how much it takes? With oil, return on investment isn’t even relevant to the question of whether it’s sustainable. We’re using up a non-renewable resource, and when it’s gone, it’s gone. The ratio of energy required to pull oil out of the ground compared to the energy it produces is a red herring. Also what is the part about cat food about? Sorry I don’t get it. Are you suggesting everything needs to be accounted for up to and including cat food? Or is this a joke about over-accounting for things that aren’t directly related?

by bullen 5y ago

dahart 5y ago

What if the energy used to build and transport were to come from wind, solar and/or hydro? Does it stay stupid in your calculus? Could you post some data and/or resources on where you’re getting your numbers? It sounds surprising and unlikely, because large wind turbines can generate a lot of energy over their lifetimes. Ivanpah solar generates about 850Gwh annually and has been running for 10 years, with many more on the horizon. You are sure 8500 Gwh is less that it took to construct? I’m curious about your claim and willing to hear the research. How are you calculating the energy inputs of manufacture? How are you calculating the lifetime outputs? I tried to Google it and the very first result roundly and soundly counters your claims, and backs it up with real data. https://fullfact.org/online/wind-turbines-energy/ https://fullfact.org/online/wind-turbines-energy/ “A 2010 analysis of fifty separate studies found that the average wind turbine, over the course of its operational life, generated 20 times more energy than it took to produce. This level was “favourable” in comparison to fossil fuels, nuclear and solar power.” And most importantly, is comparing energy in to energy out the right question to ask, and why? If energy in is renewable, then why would it matter how much it takes? With oil, return on investment isn’t even relevant to the question of whether it’s sustainable. We’re using up a non-renewable resource, and when it’s gone, it’s gone. The ratio of energy required to pull oil out of the ground compared to the energy it produces is a red herring. Also what is the part about cat food about? Sorry I don’t get it. Are you suggesting everything needs to be accounted for up to and including cat food? Or is this a joke about over-accounting for things that aren’t directly related?