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Google fined €220m by French competition watchdog over online advertising market

191 points by hadrien01 5y ago

hadrien01 5y ago
Full translated title: French Competition Authority fines Google €220 million for favouring its own services in online advertising (too long for HN) The press release is in French, but they usually release an English translation in the following hours. I'll update this comment when they do.
- Raed667 5y ago
  The link has been changed to euronews, can you also provide the original one ?
  - yamrzou 5y ago
    https://www.autoritedelaconcurrence.fr/fr/article/lautorite-de-la-concurrence-sanctionne-google-hauteur-de-220-millions-deuros-pour-avoir https://www.autoritedelaconcurrence.fr/fr/article/lautorite-...
    - polote 5y ago
      more details here https://www.autoritedelaconcurrence.fr/fr/communiques-de-presse/lautorite-de-la-concurrence-sanctionne-google-hauteur-de-220-millions-deuros https://www.autoritedelaconcurrence.fr/fr/communiques-de-pre...
- hadrien01 5y ago
  The statement in English: https://www.autoritedelaconcurrence.fr/en/article/autorite-de-la-concurrence-hands-out-eu220-millions-fine-google-favouring-its-own-services https://www.autoritedelaconcurrence.fr/en/article/autorite-d... The press release (contains more details): https://www.autoritedelaconcurrence.fr/en/press-release/autorite-de-la-concurrence-hands-out-eu220-millions-fine-google-favouring-its-own https://www.autoritedelaconcurrence.fr/en/press-release/auto...
WastingMyTime89 5y ago
My understanding of the press release is that Google is fined for merging its supply-side (AdX) and its demand-side (Doubleclick For Publishers) plateforms into Google Ad Manager in a way which heavily advantages AdX users on Doubleclick For Publishers. As part of the settlement negociation, Google has agreed to improve interoptability with other SSP.
merricksb 5y ago
This seems like a solid English language news source with more detailed reporting: https://www.euronews.com/2021/06/07/google-fined-220m-by-french-competition-watchdog-over-online-advertising-market https://www.euronews.com/2021/06/07/google-fined-220m-by-fre...
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
dalbasal 5y ago
As with the €2bn EU case with similar findings, the fine itself is the least interesting part. Google is clearly willing to spend much more than this for a lot less to maintain their position in the ad market. What matters is the changes google has to make as a result. We haven't seen much of a muchness on this front so far. If the trend continues, antitrust (particularly european antitrust) will be more of a pseudo taxation system for monopolies than about trustbusting, regulation or whatnot. If so, I suggest we raise the rates.
- zpeti 5y ago
  Wouldn’t enforcing action be bette than raising rates? The amount of innovation google is stifling with their hand on both sides of the market must be significant at this point, I doubt the online ad market has many new startups in it at this point.
  - dalbasal 5y ago
    Yes, that was tongue in cheek. Honestly though, I don't really think its a job for courts. Courts have a role, but they're there to enforce laws, not enact policies.
Aissen 5y ago
Note that this fine is a settlement, it was negotiated and accepted by Google and the french watchdog. Some say it's because of how low-balling it is compared to actual damage.
spinningslate 5y ago
Google's Q1 2021 revenue was $55.1bn [0]. So EUR220m is 0.4% of one quarter's revenue. Commercially at least, that's basically a noise-level cost of doing business. It might be that it instigates a change in market dynamics but we'll have to see. More generally, it is another example of the growing sentiment against the big tech players - and one of the few (thus far) that have come to conclusion. [0]: https://www.statista.com/statistics/267606/quarterly-revenue-of-google/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/267606/quarterly-revenue...
- ysavir 5y ago
  I'm assuming the $55.1bn is international, not just in France. What was its revenue in France? What would its profit look like if other nations fined it similarly? We don't need a single nation to fine FAANG or others "once and for all" on behalf of all nations. We need every nation fining them over and over again for each offense.
- amomo 5y ago
  As this is a french fine, you probably should compare it to the french revenue (couldn't find it except an estimated $2bn in 2019) ?
- Iv 5y ago
  Google declared 440m revenues in France in 2018. So that's 50% of its official yearly income. Of course, this was a fiction, that was attacked in court, Google settled this one for 1 billion in 2019. The principle of the fines in France is that the first one is a warning, that serves to clarify rules that may not have seem obvious at first, but non compliance a second time can cost a lot.
bryanrasmussen 5y ago
It seems there have been quite a few fines like this recently, anyone have a running tally. I mean sure, it's only 0.4% of a quarter's revenue, but if your total fines is coming up on 4% of a quarter's revenue that might start to look like a warning - especially as you haven't started getting into real hefty gdpr fines yet.
- libertine 5y ago
  Just to add to this, some of these settlements seem to come with compromises from Google, so basically they are being forced into compliance. So it's not like this was just a cost of doing business to maintain the status quo, but a fine applied despite the changes they have to make. If this starts to build up (fines + changes) seems better then nothing, or just fines alone.
_Understated_ 5y ago
Can someone explain to me the point of having a law that says "if you do this bad thing and we find you guilty, we'll fine you a tiny fraction of what you made from doing that thing"? There is no disincentive from what I can see...
- piva00 5y ago
  Because the fine isn't the interesting part of this settlement, this is: > "Google proposed commitments aimed at improving the interoperability of the Google Ad Manager services with third-party ad server and ad serving platform solutions," the watchdog said.
- hyperman1 5y ago
  European fines typically start low, but keep growing if compliance is not established. Basically, this is threatening but not hurting. Yet
- antris 5y ago
  It gives the company the opportunity to comply before being hit by a bigger fine, I suppose.
otabdeveloper4 5y ago
> €220m Google probably spends more on toilet paper.
NetOpWibby 5y ago
> Google has not contested the facts and the fine was agreed as part of a settlement procedure, it added. This means the fine was too cheap.
- rasz 5y ago
  Wouldnt be surprised if Google exec who lead AdX/Doubleclick merger got bigger yearly bonus than this fine.
- deusum 5y ago
  If the punishment for a crime is a fine, then it only applies to the poor.
  - dragonwriter 5y ago
    > If the punishment for a crime is a fine, then it only applies to the poor. If its a fixed fine that is not adjusted in either direction for ability to pay, or which maxes out at a level which only is meaningful to the poor, sure. If the fine is ““Your net worth minus the lesser of half your actual average annual income from legal sources for the last five years or double the federal poverty level for an individual”, it doesn’t “only apply to the poor”. Of course, most criminal fines do only apply to the poor, but that’s not inherent to fines, but just what fines look like when the law is intended to punish the poor to start with.
    - deusum 5y ago
      Finland is one of the few places I know of that enforces fines that way.[1] Would be great is everyone did. But as the rich are so good at dodging taxes, already, I imagine it wouldn't be as effective as desired. https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2015/03/finland-home-of-the-103000-speeding-ticket/387484/ https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2015/03/finland...
- x0x0 5y ago
  Not necessarily. Often the meat of these agreements is the agreed behavior changes, not the fine. (It's very annoying that the articles often focus on the fines, rather than the rest of the agreement.) Setting the fines at a level that doesn't cause endless appeals gets the behavior changes sooner, and may be more net efficient.
tibiahurried 5y ago
Google 2020 : - revenue 182B - earnings 40B The fine is 0.5% of their earnings or 0.12% of their revenue. Basically nothing. They should start fining in the order of B not M

191 points by hadrien01 5y ago

Full translated title: French Competition Authority fines Google €220 million for favouring its own services in online advertising (too long for HN) The press release is in French, but they usually release an English translation in the following hours. I'll update this comment when they do.

Raed667 5y ago
The link has been changed to euronews, can you also provide the original one ?
- yamrzou 5y ago
  https://www.autoritedelaconcurrence.fr/fr/article/lautorite-de-la-concurrence-sanctionne-google-hauteur-de-220-millions-deuros-pour-avoir https://www.autoritedelaconcurrence.fr/fr/article/lautorite-...
  - polote 5y ago
    more details here https://www.autoritedelaconcurrence.fr/fr/communiques-de-presse/lautorite-de-la-concurrence-sanctionne-google-hauteur-de-220-millions-deuros https://www.autoritedelaconcurrence.fr/fr/communiques-de-pre...
hadrien01 5y ago
The statement in English: https://www.autoritedelaconcurrence.fr/en/article/autorite-de-la-concurrence-hands-out-eu220-millions-fine-google-favouring-its-own-services https://www.autoritedelaconcurrence.fr/en/article/autorite-d... The press release (contains more details): https://www.autoritedelaconcurrence.fr/en/press-release/autorite-de-la-concurrence-hands-out-eu220-millions-fine-google-favouring-its-own https://www.autoritedelaconcurrence.fr/en/press-release/auto...

WastingMyTime89 5y ago

My understanding of the press release is that Google is fined for merging its supply-side (AdX) and its demand-side (Doubleclick For Publishers) plateforms into Google Ad Manager in a way which heavily advantages AdX users on Doubleclick For Publishers. As part of the settlement negociation, Google has agreed to improve interoptability with other SSP.

merricksb 5y ago

This seems like a solid English language news source with more detailed reporting: https://www.euronews.com/2021/06/07/google-fined-220m-by-french-competition-watchdog-over-online-advertising-market https://www.euronews.com/2021/06/07/google-fined-220m-by-fre...

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

dalbasal 5y ago

As with the €2bn EU case with similar findings, the fine itself is the least interesting part. Google is clearly willing to spend much more than this for a lot less to maintain their position in the ad market. What matters is the changes google has to make as a result. We haven't seen much of a muchness on this front so far. If the trend continues, antitrust (particularly european antitrust) will be more of a pseudo taxation system for monopolies than about trustbusting, regulation or whatnot. If so, I suggest we raise the rates.

zpeti 5y ago
Wouldn’t enforcing action be bette than raising rates? The amount of innovation google is stifling with their hand on both sides of the market must be significant at this point, I doubt the online ad market has many new startups in it at this point.
- dalbasal 5y ago
  Yes, that was tongue in cheek. Honestly though, I don't really think its a job for courts. Courts have a role, but they're there to enforce laws, not enact policies.

Aissen 5y ago

Note that this fine is a settlement, it was negotiated and accepted by Google and the french watchdog. Some say it's because of how low-balling it is compared to actual damage.

spinningslate 5y ago

Google's Q1 2021 revenue was $55.1bn [0]. So EUR220m is 0.4% of one quarter's revenue. Commercially at least, that's basically a noise-level cost of doing business. It might be that it instigates a change in market dynamics but we'll have to see. More generally, it is another example of the growing sentiment against the big tech players - and one of the few (thus far) that have come to conclusion. [0]: https://www.statista.com/statistics/267606/quarterly-revenue-of-google/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/267606/quarterly-revenue...

ysavir 5y ago
I'm assuming the $55.1bn is international, not just in France. What was its revenue in France? What would its profit look like if other nations fined it similarly? We don't need a single nation to fine FAANG or others "once and for all" on behalf of all nations. We need every nation fining them over and over again for each offense.
amomo 5y ago
As this is a french fine, you probably should compare it to the french revenue (couldn't find it except an estimated $2bn in 2019) ?
Iv 5y ago
Google declared 440m revenues in France in 2018. So that's 50% of its official yearly income. Of course, this was a fiction, that was attacked in court, Google settled this one for 1 billion in 2019. The principle of the fines in France is that the first one is a warning, that serves to clarify rules that may not have seem obvious at first, but non compliance a second time can cost a lot.

bryanrasmussen 5y ago

It seems there have been quite a few fines like this recently, anyone have a running tally. I mean sure, it's only 0.4% of a quarter's revenue, but if your total fines is coming up on 4% of a quarter's revenue that might start to look like a warning - especially as you haven't started getting into real hefty gdpr fines yet.

libertine 5y ago
Just to add to this, some of these settlements seem to come with compromises from Google, so basically they are being forced into compliance. So it's not like this was just a cost of doing business to maintain the status quo, but a fine applied despite the changes they have to make. If this starts to build up (fines + changes) seems better then nothing, or just fines alone.

_Understated_ 5y ago

Can someone explain to me the point of having a law that says "if you do this bad thing and we find you guilty, we'll fine you a tiny fraction of what you made from doing that thing"? There is no disincentive from what I can see...

piva00 5y ago
Because the fine isn't the interesting part of this settlement, this is: > "Google proposed commitments aimed at improving the interoperability of the Google Ad Manager services with third-party ad server and ad serving platform solutions," the watchdog said.
hyperman1 5y ago
European fines typically start low, but keep growing if compliance is not established. Basically, this is threatening but not hurting. Yet
antris 5y ago
It gives the company the opportunity to comply before being hit by a bigger fine, I suppose.

otabdeveloper4 5y ago

> €220m Google probably spends more on toilet paper.

NetOpWibby 5y ago

> Google has not contested the facts and the fine was agreed as part of a settlement procedure, it added. This means the fine was too cheap.

rasz 5y ago
Wouldnt be surprised if Google exec who lead AdX/Doubleclick merger got bigger yearly bonus than this fine.
deusum 5y ago
If the punishment for a crime is a fine, then it only applies to the poor.
- dragonwriter 5y ago
  > If the punishment for a crime is a fine, then it only applies to the poor. If its a fixed fine that is not adjusted in either direction for ability to pay, or which maxes out at a level which only is meaningful to the poor, sure. If the fine is ““Your net worth minus the lesser of half your actual average annual income from legal sources for the last five years or double the federal poverty level for an individual”, it doesn’t “only apply to the poor”. Of course, most criminal fines do only apply to the poor, but that’s not inherent to fines, but just what fines look like when the law is intended to punish the poor to start with.
  - deusum 5y ago
    Finland is one of the few places I know of that enforces fines that way.[1] Would be great is everyone did. But as the rich are so good at dodging taxes, already, I imagine it wouldn't be as effective as desired. https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2015/03/finland-home-of-the-103000-speeding-ticket/387484/ https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2015/03/finland...
x0x0 5y ago
Not necessarily. Often the meat of these agreements is the agreed behavior changes, not the fine. (It's very annoying that the articles often focus on the fines, rather than the rest of the agreement.) Setting the fines at a level that doesn't cause endless appeals gets the behavior changes sooner, and may be more net efficient.

tibiahurried 5y ago

Google 2020 : - revenue 182B - earnings 40B The fine is 0.5% of their earnings or 0.12% of their revenue. Basically nothing. They should start fining in the order of B not M