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and of course: it's javascript! because literally every other community would have no problem if their doc-generator got unmaintained, because it would probably

by fock 5y ago

and of course: it's javascript! because literally every other community would have no problem if their doc-generator got unmaintained, because it would probably run for another ten years...

KirillPanov 5y ago
There's really something to be said for software that is so ruthlessly simple it runs forever without maintenance. Like most of what DJB has written: djbdns still works after all these years... And of course Knuth's TeX. Maybe people shouldn't start software projects if there isn't a "can leave it here unmaintained" milestone within sight.
- throw_m239339 5y ago
  > Maybe people shouldn't start software projects if there isn't a "can leave it here unmaintained" milestone within sight. It's because these projects have tons of dependencies and moving parts which tend to break themselves (often for very little reasons) so of course it's going to affect upstream. The software you listed are usually mostly self-contained or rely on stable projects. There is no such thing as "stability" in the Node.js ecosystem (which isn't javascript itself).
  - fxtentacle 5y ago
    I think you just said exactly what the parent comment meant. Nodejs is the new Java jar dependency hell. Maybe package the entire project into a docker container so that people can download and run the pile of dependencies in one step.
    - progx 5y ago
      `entire project into a docker container `, like Linux Flatpak. It is not a nodejs specific problem, every software with dependencies has it. (some more, some less)
mattgreenrocks 5y ago
There’s also a defective culture meme that believes software that hasn’t been updated in the past week is dying. This is a conceptual hack to avoid considering the state of the ecosystem.
- gwd 5y ago
  I think GP is trying to imply that there's so much churn in the Javascript ecosystem that any project which isn't updated will actually stop working in a relatively short amount of time.
  - Igelau 5y ago
    Pretty sure "Hello World" develops a major security vulnerability in a dependency you didn't know about if you go two weeks without looking at it.
- slver 5y ago
  It's not a defective culture meme, because the modern ecosystem is moving fast. We're using to thinking about digital creations as if they're forever. This is incorrect. Software without a platform doesn't run. Platforms are always changing, and sometimes platforms die and get replaced with other ones. Think of software like a living being, not like a statue etched in stone (although even statues etched in stone degrade).
  - mattgreenrocks 5y ago
    You could almost say it was a Cambrian explosion of sorts? It’s 2012 all over again: “churn makes things better! BTW, what should we be using this week?”
    - scruffyherder 5y ago
      I’d say it’s forever 1997. Netscape had a server side JavaScript platform in 1997. People still build 3 tier apps, and web farms. It’s eternal 1997.

by fock 5y ago

and of course: it's javascript! because literally every other community would have no problem if their doc-generator got unmaintained, because it would probably run for another ten years...

KirillPanov 5y ago

There's really something to be said for software that is so ruthlessly simple it runs forever without maintenance. Like most of what DJB has written: djbdns still works after all these years... And of course Knuth's TeX. Maybe people shouldn't start software projects if there isn't a "can leave it here unmaintained" milestone within sight.

throw_m239339 5y ago
> Maybe people shouldn't start software projects if there isn't a "can leave it here unmaintained" milestone within sight. It's because these projects have tons of dependencies and moving parts which tend to break themselves (often for very little reasons) so of course it's going to affect upstream. The software you listed are usually mostly self-contained or rely on stable projects. There is no such thing as "stability" in the Node.js ecosystem (which isn't javascript itself).
- fxtentacle 5y ago
  I think you just said exactly what the parent comment meant. Nodejs is the new Java jar dependency hell. Maybe package the entire project into a docker container so that people can download and run the pile of dependencies in one step.
  - progx 5y ago
    `entire project into a docker container `, like Linux Flatpak. It is not a nodejs specific problem, every software with dependencies has it. (some more, some less)

mattgreenrocks 5y ago

There’s also a defective culture meme that believes software that hasn’t been updated in the past week is dying. This is a conceptual hack to avoid considering the state of the ecosystem.

gwd 5y ago
I think GP is trying to imply that there's so much churn in the Javascript ecosystem that any project which isn't updated will actually stop working in a relatively short amount of time.
- Igelau 5y ago
  Pretty sure "Hello World" develops a major security vulnerability in a dependency you didn't know about if you go two weeks without looking at it.
slver 5y ago
It's not a defective culture meme, because the modern ecosystem is moving fast. We're using to thinking about digital creations as if they're forever. This is incorrect. Software without a platform doesn't run. Platforms are always changing, and sometimes platforms die and get replaced with other ones. Think of software like a living being, not like a statue etched in stone (although even statues etched in stone degrade).
- mattgreenrocks 5y ago
  You could almost say it was a Cambrian explosion of sorts? It’s 2012 all over again: “churn makes things better! BTW, what should we be using this week?”
  - scruffyherder 5y ago
    I’d say it’s forever 1997. Netscape had a server side JavaScript platform in 1997. People still build 3 tier apps, and web farms. It’s eternal 1997.