5 ms·

I see that in software business too, some psychological biases are at work here. It's usually because he used to pay $12 at some point, which he remembers bette

I see that in software business too, some psychological biases are at work here. It's usually because he used to pay $12 at some point, which he remembers better than other times, thinks it was just yesterday. Moreover, people and most of all business owners, don't like to be coerced to accept higher market price like that, if the work efficiency and quality of work did not improve. Same if you go to a shop and suddenly have to pay X% more for a toothbrush and don't really have a choice (alternative is to shop around but it costs time and money). I think USA is still in a very good position compared to other countries as it is still seen as one of the best places to emigrate to. Other countries have it much worse and declining demographics will kill them faster.

blfr 5y ago
people and most of all business owners, don't like to be coerced to accept higher market price like that, if the work efficiency and quality of work did not improve This is a very good observation. And smaller business owners often really don't get the increases in efficiency because they skimp on tools and aren't great managers. So it's a double whammy of increasing costs and not getting the increase of efficiency that larger companies enjoy. Basically, they're on the receiving end of Baumol's cost disease. And because more expensive labor forces increases in efficiency (more tech, better organization), cheap labor is by far the worst drug for the economy, covering up for stagnation and exploitation.
tormeh 5y ago
Simple price anchoring mixed with entitlement, I'd say. Not unique to business owners at all, but extra aggravating when it's an employer.
tester34 5y ago
>I think USA is still in a very good position compared to other countries as it is still seen as one of the best places to emigrate to. I agree, but is it the best place for pernament emigration? I always think of US like a 1-3 year journey and then go back to PL
- davewritescode 5y ago
  The US isn't a giant monolith although the rest of the world likes to treat it as such. Life on the coasts is very different than life everywhere else. It's one of the reasons the country is so polarized. We literally live in two different countries. Wealthy coastal cities and poverty stricken rural decay in the middle of the country.
  - cheese_van 5y ago
    Yes. Think of all the different cultures you encounter on a long auto drive from Madrid to Moscow. Now drive from LA to Bangor, similarly long, if not longer. Is it no wonder, then, we might feel like there are "different" Americas in the broad expanse of the US? And "different" Americans? While I agree with you in part, another argument might ascribe many aspects of a perceived "polarization" to mere geography.
  - throwaway0a5e 5y ago
    There's plenty of decay on the coasts and cities doing great in middle America. You never hear about them on HN because they're not ideologically convenient in the little filter bubble we've got going on here. The "coasts rich and good, middle America poor and backwards" narrative that we get plenty of here, on Reddit, etc. is an over-simplification at best.
  - theandrewbailey 5y ago
    > Wealthy coastal cities and poverty stricken rural decay in the middle of the country. San Francisco and LA are infamous for large homeless populations. The inland South and West are flourishing.
    - pjmorris 5y ago
      I live outside Raleigh, NC, which is booming. In my exurb, I can drive less than ten minutes to find empty storefronts. I've seen those empty storefronts in every rural area I've been in on the Eastern seaboard. Cities may be booming, there are still people being left behind. Have a listen to "We Can't Make It Here Anymore", by James McMurtry
jokethrowaway 5y ago
While the USA is a better place than many, it's far from ideal. It's nice to get a high salary for a few years. The USA still has a lot of private capital to attract talents. But eventually it's going to run out of it or the dollar will lose value. This will be accelerated by the growth of the Chinese renminbi, especially once countries start to use it as a base currency instead of the dollar. The USA has high salaries and relatively cheap house but it also has high taxes, high cost of healthcare and education, a good amount of social craziness (political polarisation, crime, revolts, gun shootings in school, badly handled homelessness) - I personally think you may be better off living in Europe for the time being. Still, Europe is a time bomb waiting to explode. The demographics decline and high paid jobs moving away to countries with lower taxation will trigger a pension crisis, eventually. When Italy needs a bailout, Europe will stop being what it is. I think in x0 years South America could be the next Europe and China could be the next USA.
- xwolfi 5y ago
  But Europe doesnt exist in the same sense as the US does. It's not a system that can blow up, it s a group of interest that prevent French and Germans to murder each others and their neighbour. If we can do that without the EU so be it, it's not like we culturally merged just yet. But not saying the situation is great in each country, but I suppose if Italy dies, we can still kick it out or stop the EU as long as France and Germany find a way to ensure no more world war. This is the only goal for most of us. Every other advantage is a bonus, every flaw a necessary sacrifice.
  - jokethrowaway 5y ago
    I see your point and I agree that individual countries would be able to live just fine and cooperate / trade with each other - eventually. I still think that if the EUR currency were to fail all those countries will face tremendous adversities for quite some time. That could be a chance for countries like Italy and Greece to rebuild a less corrupted version of themselves, but I reckon it would take a long time.
- davewritescode 5y ago
granshaw 5y ago
> I see that in software business too I mean, from a business standpoint, let's face it, employees are a pain and more of a necessary evil when needed. I dream of running a lifestyle business where I don't need any full-time employees. Not many people start a business wanting to employ lots of people and be a "model employer" (even though those who do are loud about it)
- Nkuna 5y ago
  Business standpoint? How are people that contribute the majority of your bottom line a necessary evil? If anything, employers are the necessary evil simply because citizens fail to sustain/govern themselves. Less employees means less consumers which means less income for your lifestyle business. Economics 101 bud. But yeah, keep dreaming!
treis 5y ago
There's a practical aspect of this too. Say you pay 4 drivers $17 an hour and to get the 5th you'd have to pay $19 an hour. The problem is that it's tough to pay 4 drivers $17 and one $19. They'll talk and eventually the other 4 drivers will demand $19 as well. That's why you see a lot of interview and signing bonuses but less wage increases.

blfr 5y ago

people and most of all business owners, don't like to be coerced to accept higher market price like that, if the work efficiency and quality of work did not improve This is a very good observation. And smaller business owners often really don't get the increases in efficiency because they skimp on tools and aren't great managers. So it's a double whammy of increasing costs and not getting the increase of efficiency that larger companies enjoy. Basically, they're on the receiving end of Baumol's cost disease. And because more expensive labor forces increases in efficiency (more tech, better organization), cheap labor is by far the worst drug for the economy, covering up for stagnation and exploitation.

tormeh 5y ago

Simple price anchoring mixed with entitlement, I'd say. Not unique to business owners at all, but extra aggravating when it's an employer.

tester34 5y ago

>I think USA is still in a very good position compared to other countries as it is still seen as one of the best places to emigrate to. I agree, but is it the best place for pernament emigration? I always think of US like a 1-3 year journey and then go back to PL

davewritescode 5y ago
The US isn't a giant monolith although the rest of the world likes to treat it as such. Life on the coasts is very different than life everywhere else. It's one of the reasons the country is so polarized. We literally live in two different countries. Wealthy coastal cities and poverty stricken rural decay in the middle of the country.
- cheese_van 5y ago
  Yes. Think of all the different cultures you encounter on a long auto drive from Madrid to Moscow. Now drive from LA to Bangor, similarly long, if not longer. Is it no wonder, then, we might feel like there are "different" Americas in the broad expanse of the US? And "different" Americans? While I agree with you in part, another argument might ascribe many aspects of a perceived "polarization" to mere geography.
- throwaway0a5e 5y ago
  There's plenty of decay on the coasts and cities doing great in middle America. You never hear about them on HN because they're not ideologically convenient in the little filter bubble we've got going on here. The "coasts rich and good, middle America poor and backwards" narrative that we get plenty of here, on Reddit, etc. is an over-simplification at best.
- theandrewbailey 5y ago
  > Wealthy coastal cities and poverty stricken rural decay in the middle of the country. San Francisco and LA are infamous for large homeless populations. The inland South and West are flourishing.
  - pjmorris 5y ago
    I live outside Raleigh, NC, which is booming. In my exurb, I can drive less than ten minutes to find empty storefronts. I've seen those empty storefronts in every rural area I've been in on the Eastern seaboard. Cities may be booming, there are still people being left behind. Have a listen to "We Can't Make It Here Anymore", by James McMurtry

jokethrowaway 5y ago

While the USA is a better place than many, it's far from ideal. It's nice to get a high salary for a few years. The USA still has a lot of private capital to attract talents. But eventually it's going to run out of it or the dollar will lose value. This will be accelerated by the growth of the Chinese renminbi, especially once countries start to use it as a base currency instead of the dollar. The USA has high salaries and relatively cheap house but it also has high taxes, high cost of healthcare and education, a good amount of social craziness (political polarisation, crime, revolts, gun shootings in school, badly handled homelessness) - I personally think you may be better off living in Europe for the time being. Still, Europe is a time bomb waiting to explode. The demographics decline and high paid jobs moving away to countries with lower taxation will trigger a pension crisis, eventually. When Italy needs a bailout, Europe will stop being what it is. I think in x0 years South America could be the next Europe and China could be the next USA.

xwolfi 5y ago
But Europe doesnt exist in the same sense as the US does. It's not a system that can blow up, it s a group of interest that prevent French and Germans to murder each others and their neighbour. If we can do that without the EU so be it, it's not like we culturally merged just yet. But not saying the situation is great in each country, but I suppose if Italy dies, we can still kick it out or stop the EU as long as France and Germany find a way to ensure no more world war. This is the only goal for most of us. Every other advantage is a bonus, every flaw a necessary sacrifice.
- jokethrowaway 5y ago
  I see your point and I agree that individual countries would be able to live just fine and cooperate / trade with each other - eventually. I still think that if the EUR currency were to fail all those countries will face tremendous adversities for quite some time. That could be a chance for countries like Italy and Greece to rebuild a less corrupted version of themselves, but I reckon it would take a long time.
davewritescode 5y ago

granshaw 5y ago

> I see that in software business too I mean, from a business standpoint, let's face it, employees are a pain and more of a necessary evil when needed. I dream of running a lifestyle business where I don't need any full-time employees. Not many people start a business wanting to employ lots of people and be a "model employer" (even though those who do are loud about it)

Nkuna 5y ago
Business standpoint? How are people that contribute the majority of your bottom line a necessary evil? If anything, employers are the necessary evil simply because citizens fail to sustain/govern themselves. Less employees means less consumers which means less income for your lifestyle business. Economics 101 bud. But yeah, keep dreaming!

treis 5y ago

There's a practical aspect of this too. Say you pay 4 drivers $17 an hour and to get the 5th you'd have to pay $19 an hour. The problem is that it's tough to pay 4 drivers $17 and one $19. They'll talk and eventually the other 4 drivers will demand $19 as well. That's why you see a lot of interview and signing bonuses but less wage increases.