5 ms·

I’m inclined to think it’s akin to recreational drug usage in humans. Crows are supposedly more intelligent/aware than other animals, and with awareness comes

by everly 5y ago

I’m inclined to think it’s akin to recreational drug usage in humans. Crows are supposedly more intelligent/aware than other animals, and with awareness comes existential dread or whatever you want to call it. Lots of humans use drugs to alleviate this and I think it’s plausible that crows do something similar. Hopefully I’m wrong and it’s a more uplifting reason.

dflock 5y ago
Crows definitely get drunk, on purpose, by eating rotten fruit & berries, so this is plausible - although formic acid to the skin seems less fun - but then I'm not a crow.
- srge 5y ago
  > I’m not a crow I can see that
  - wkrsz 5y ago
    Disclaimer: IANAC
  - hutzlibu 5y ago
    How did you see that?
    - 867-5309 5y ago
      Crow Uses Formic Acid to Post on HN
- dr_dshiv 5y ago
  Many animals get intoxicated—even insects! I recently read "animals and psychedelics" by G. Samorini. It had some pretty impressive examples.
- londons_explore 5y ago
  Rotten fruit has a lot of calories in it... Perhaps they aren't intentionally getting drunk, but merely trying to get those calories and being drunk is a side effect? Being drunk as a bird wouldn't seem to be a good idea from a survival point of view ...
  - lexicality 5y ago
    > Being drunk as a bird wouldn't seem to be a good idea from a survival point of view ... Being drunk as a human is also not a good idea from a survival point of view given how often drunk people kill themselves doing stupid things. Crows engage in play and form complex plans that show they understand that actions have consequences so it doesn't seem unreasonable that they might occasionally decide to get drunk and roll around on the floor screaming.
  - mapkkk 5y ago
    I’m on mobile so I can’t provide you with a good quality reply with sources, but we are taught in medical school that alcohol calories are not metabolized the same way as other nutrition. In a very back of the envelope kind of way, here’s why: Alcohol is metabolized not as nutrition but as poison, and while yes, ethanol is very calorific, the calories derived from are lost (mostly) as heat. And, because of the metabolic pathways utilized, other important substances required by cells are depleted (products of the Pentose Phosphate Pathway - PPP) in the quest to detoxify alcohol. Running the PPP is generally an energy intense process, so you’re at a net loss when al said and done. This can partly help explain why chronic alcoholics are not overweight. This is excluding the calorie debt owed to repairing cell damage from the cytotoxic effects of alcohol. If anyone’s interested, I can recommend some Biochemistry textbooks for a deep dive. EDIT: Forgot to mention, partly thanks to the metabolic reasons, alcohol results in hypoglycemia, so it is unlikely that the bird would experience feelings of satiety after imbibing.
irrational 5y ago
Wait, this is the first I’ve ever heard of drugs being used to alleviate existential dread. I’ve never experienced or understood existential dread, so maybe that is why this seems strange to me, but do you have any sources about your assertion?
- everly 5y ago
  Not really, aside from personal experience/observation. Not sure what type of source there would be; perhaps a survey/study of self-reported reasons for drug use? Surely you’ve heard of drug/alcohol abuse referred to as an “escape”, no? Existential dread/angst is just another thing to try to escape from.
jamal-kumar 5y ago
Yeah there's an entire BBC doc segment about this in the series 'weird nature'. I think the only one that freaked me out really was how drunk bees get detected by 'bouncer' bees at the hive who rip their wings and limbs off if they come back too wasted https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AbXJunKCq60 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AbXJunKCq60 here it is with some awful americanized dubbing
Someone 5y ago
FTA: “it was first observed in the 1830s when James Audubon noticed turkeys doing it. […] The National Wild Turkey Federation says anting has been seen in more than 200 species of birds worldwide.” Would be interesting to know whether all those >200 species are considered smarter than average birds.
- everly 5y ago
  Ah, thanks for pointing that out. In that case, I’m inclined to think it serves one of the utilitarian functions that they mention, as it seems unlikely that all those species would have crow-level intelligence.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

by everly 5y ago

dflock 5y ago

Crows definitely get drunk, on purpose, by eating rotten fruit & berries, so this is plausible - although formic acid to the skin seems less fun - but then I'm not a crow.

srge 5y ago
> I’m not a crow I can see that
- wkrsz 5y ago
  Disclaimer: IANAC
- hutzlibu 5y ago
  How did you see that?
  - 867-5309 5y ago
    Crow Uses Formic Acid to Post on HN
dr_dshiv 5y ago
Many animals get intoxicated—even insects! I recently read "animals and psychedelics" by G. Samorini. It had some pretty impressive examples.
londons_explore 5y ago
Rotten fruit has a lot of calories in it... Perhaps they aren't intentionally getting drunk, but merely trying to get those calories and being drunk is a side effect? Being drunk as a bird wouldn't seem to be a good idea from a survival point of view ...
- lexicality 5y ago
  > Being drunk as a bird wouldn't seem to be a good idea from a survival point of view ... Being drunk as a human is also not a good idea from a survival point of view given how often drunk people kill themselves doing stupid things. Crows engage in play and form complex plans that show they understand that actions have consequences so it doesn't seem unreasonable that they might occasionally decide to get drunk and roll around on the floor screaming.
- mapkkk 5y ago
  I’m on mobile so I can’t provide you with a good quality reply with sources, but we are taught in medical school that alcohol calories are not metabolized the same way as other nutrition. In a very back of the envelope kind of way, here’s why: Alcohol is metabolized not as nutrition but as poison, and while yes, ethanol is very calorific, the calories derived from are lost (mostly) as heat. And, because of the metabolic pathways utilized, other important substances required by cells are depleted (products of the Pentose Phosphate Pathway - PPP) in the quest to detoxify alcohol. Running the PPP is generally an energy intense process, so you’re at a net loss when al said and done. This can partly help explain why chronic alcoholics are not overweight. This is excluding the calorie debt owed to repairing cell damage from the cytotoxic effects of alcohol. If anyone’s interested, I can recommend some Biochemistry textbooks for a deep dive. EDIT: Forgot to mention, partly thanks to the metabolic reasons, alcohol results in hypoglycemia, so it is unlikely that the bird would experience feelings of satiety after imbibing.

irrational 5y ago

Wait, this is the first I’ve ever heard of drugs being used to alleviate existential dread. I’ve never experienced or understood existential dread, so maybe that is why this seems strange to me, but do you have any sources about your assertion?

everly 5y ago
Not really, aside from personal experience/observation. Not sure what type of source there would be; perhaps a survey/study of self-reported reasons for drug use? Surely you’ve heard of drug/alcohol abuse referred to as an “escape”, no? Existential dread/angst is just another thing to try to escape from.

jamal-kumar 5y ago

Yeah there's an entire BBC doc segment about this in the series 'weird nature'. I think the only one that freaked me out really was how drunk bees get detected by 'bouncer' bees at the hive who rip their wings and limbs off if they come back too wasted https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AbXJunKCq60 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AbXJunKCq60 here it is with some awful americanized dubbing

Someone 5y ago

FTA: “it was first observed in the 1830s when James Audubon noticed turkeys doing it. […] The National Wild Turkey Federation says anting has been seen in more than 200 species of birds worldwide.” Would be interesting to know whether all those >200 species are considered smarter than average birds.

everly 5y ago
Ah, thanks for pointing that out. In that case, I’m inclined to think it serves one of the utilitarian functions that they mention, as it seems unlikely that all those species would have crow-level intelligence.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]