6 ms·

My current understanding is that running is way better than no exercise, but that other forms of exercise are quite likely better for your long-term health beca

by cdr 18y ago

My current understanding is that running is way better than no exercise, but that other forms of exercise are quite likely better for your long-term health because of the impact stress running puts on your knees, feet, etc.

wallflower 18y ago
One of the best forms of exercise is swimming. Near zero-impact on joints. For those of you who think they can't learn how to swim, check out Total Immersion's zen-like, go with the water method. (http://www.totalimmersion.net http://www.totalimmersion.net). I learned how to swim freestyle through their video. Most swimming courses emphasize using your arms like paddle wheels to plow through the water, while TI emphasizes swimming much like fish and advanced swimmers do, by propelling from the core. TI is harder to learn but more efficient once you learn by progressing through their balance and core propulsion drills.
- aardvarkious 18y ago
  Swimming also puts you in better shape IMO. I used to run plenty, but my knees started hurting, so now I only run if I am actually playing a sport. I took up swimming for my exercise. I'd never taken a swimming lesson in my life, but I just went to the pool and started doing it. A few times I asked the life guards for some tips, and I also chatted up some of the good swimmers and got tips from them. I went for a 2k run the other day just to see what it was like after swimming but not running for a couple months. It was about the same as when I ran everyday (maybe even a bit easier), and I have a slightly more toned upper body now.
  - eru 18y ago
    You mean you did not know how to swim before? Or that you did not know how to swim efficently?
    - aardvarkious 18y ago
      I didn't know how to swim efficiently: if you threw me in the pool, I wouldn't drown, and I could maybe do one continuous lap (50m) if I pushed myself.
- fendale 18y ago
  +1 for the TotalImmersion link. I swim about 10K a week at a reasonable, but not superstar pace, and the TI drills improved my stroke no end a few years back. I can now swim a length of a 25 meter pool in 16 - 18 strokes, where as most of 'paddle wheelers' notch up about 25 - 30 strokes per length and hence tire much more quickly.
  - benbryant 18y ago
    Here is a potential conundrum that I have never quite understood: If your goal is to get a workout (burn calories, raise your heart rate, move your muscles, etc.), then why would you want to learn to swim more efficiently? Wouldn't it just take more time to achieve the same amount of exertion? Of course I understand that if you want to win a race you need to be efficient, but it seems to run counter to the goal of exercising. No?
    - utnick 18y ago
      it wouldn't really take more time because you can still get your heart rate up quickly while swimming correctly. Swimming efficiently also is more of a full body workout I think than just paddling your arms. Also swimming poorly can be frustrating and would make people not want to work out as long or maybe give up swimming alltogether.
    - wallflower 18y ago
      If around 98% of your energy can be lost due to water resistance, small improvements in efficiency are key. TI was the difference between not literally being able to swim 50m straight (near hyperventilating like I ran a 100m dash) and 1 mile swims (albeit slow). As for why I posted about TI, it fits in the hacker ethos - doing something differently but better. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anaerobic http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anaerobic Some beginner swimmers (including myself before TI) swim anaerobically (lactic acid produced, pain in muscles). Only with better technique will you be able to swim aerobically (laps). "Olympic swimmers are able, at best, to convert only 9 percent of their energy into forward movement while swimming the front crawl or freestyle, the fastest and most efficient of the four competitive strokes. (On average, the butterfly, backstroke and breaststroke follow in speed and efficiency.) Most of the rest of us use as much as 98 percent of our energy overcoming water resistance. " (2) "But the real killer for competitive swimmers is a third type of resistance that arises at the interface between air and water—wave drag. Moving along the surface of the water inevitably creates waves. Physically speaking, swimmers force a mass of water in front of them to rise up against gravity. This not only robs swimmers of energy, but it has a disproportionately greater effect the faster they go. The problem is that wave drag increases as the cube of any increase in swimming speed. And it gets worse if a swimmer makes jerky or uneven movements, either bouncing in the water or moving from side to side, because this wastes still more energy making waves." (1) (1) http://environment.newscientist.com/article/mg15921455.600-swim-like-a-fish.html http://environment.newscientist.com/article/mg15921455.600-s... (2) http://gymkhana.iitb.ac.in/~swimclub/swim4.html http://gymkhana.iitb.ac.in/~swimclub/swim4.html
- dfranke 18y ago
  Total Immersion really is an excellent program. It brought me from totally incompetent to competing on my high school's varsity team within the space of a couple months. I never expected to see it mentioned on news.yc. Actually, though, you don't need to have good technique to get a good workout from swimming. In fact, I think swimming badly is significantly better exercise than swimming well.
  - eru 18y ago
    But is it as much fun?
- parenthesis 18y ago
  I really like swimming. But the chlorine compound (or whatever) in swimming-pool water affects my skin. So I can't swim regularly.
  - 13ren 18y ago
    I've found a sauna helps by sweating the compound out of my skin.
  - Shooter 18y ago
    Chlorine is by far the most common pool cleaner, but not the only option. Some pools use other methods like ozonation and UV sterilization. Neither of these would bother your skin. Pools like this are admittedly much harder to find, but if you really want to swim it might be worth the effort to track one down. I have a friend that bought an 'endless pool' that uses ozonation technology because of a chlorine allergy. If you use soap and shampoo that are specially formulated to remove chlorine after you swim, it will also help you immensely. Most of the bad effects of chlorine for your skin are from longer-term exposure. Of course, you still have the carcinogen issue...but you can minimize that somewhat by swimming in a cooler temp pool with cool ambient air.
    - parenthesis 18y ago
      Thanks for that. Your comment prompted me to find this international list of non- and low-chlorine pools: http://piscinasana.blogspot.com/ http://piscinasana.blogspot.com/ .
  - akd 18y ago
    Where do you live? You can swim safely in almost any random pond.
acgourley 18y ago
That is probably true, but a lot of it depends on the care you take while running. Advice to anyone who runs on anything besides grass or rubberized tracks: buy expensive running shoes ($80+) fitted to you by a someone who knows what they are doing. A sales person at a specialty running store should be qualified. Or go barefoot.
- kajecounterhack 18y ago
  Once you know what kind of shoes you need (from a specialist or something), go to runningwarehouse.com and use the coupon code CP20 (corporate perks 20% off coupon). That can make a $90 shoe like $65-70 because their shoes are already like 10-20% off to begin with. No discount for asics or mizuno though :(
steveplace 18y ago
They've found higher correlation of intelligence with cardio vs. anaerobic. Although that just may be a function of what kind of person prefers running and swimming as opposed to throwing weights around. I prefer the latter.
xiaoma 18y ago
From page 2: "The study also showed that people cannot use the risk of injury as an excuse not to run -- the runners had fewer injuries of all kinds, including to their knees." In fact, other papers I've read have said that runners and cross-country skiers maintain bone density and joint lubrication into old age, while swimmers and cyclers do not.
kajecounterhack 18y ago
Ah but that has a lot to do with not knowing what shoes to buy. I'm a distance runner, used to get injured a lot, now I wear the right shoes and do 10+ miles a day at 6:00-7:00 mile pace. The key is having a group/friends to run with and enough discipline to do it every day. Swimming is awesome also, but running is easier to do because you don't need a pool or a club to do it.

by cdr 18y ago

wallflower 18y ago

One of the best forms of exercise is swimming. Near zero-impact on joints. For those of you who think they can't learn how to swim, check out Total Immersion's zen-like, go with the water method. (http://www.totalimmersion.net http://www.totalimmersion.net). I learned how to swim freestyle through their video. Most swimming courses emphasize using your arms like paddle wheels to plow through the water, while TI emphasizes swimming much like fish and advanced swimmers do, by propelling from the core. TI is harder to learn but more efficient once you learn by progressing through their balance and core propulsion drills.

aardvarkious 18y ago
Swimming also puts you in better shape IMO. I used to run plenty, but my knees started hurting, so now I only run if I am actually playing a sport. I took up swimming for my exercise. I'd never taken a swimming lesson in my life, but I just went to the pool and started doing it. A few times I asked the life guards for some tips, and I also chatted up some of the good swimmers and got tips from them. I went for a 2k run the other day just to see what it was like after swimming but not running for a couple months. It was about the same as when I ran everyday (maybe even a bit easier), and I have a slightly more toned upper body now.
- eru 18y ago
  You mean you did not know how to swim before? Or that you did not know how to swim efficently?
  - aardvarkious 18y ago
    I didn't know how to swim efficiently: if you threw me in the pool, I wouldn't drown, and I could maybe do one continuous lap (50m) if I pushed myself.
fendale 18y ago
+1 for the TotalImmersion link. I swim about 10K a week at a reasonable, but not superstar pace, and the TI drills improved my stroke no end a few years back. I can now swim a length of a 25 meter pool in 16 - 18 strokes, where as most of 'paddle wheelers' notch up about 25 - 30 strokes per length and hence tire much more quickly.
- benbryant 18y ago
  Here is a potential conundrum that I have never quite understood: If your goal is to get a workout (burn calories, raise your heart rate, move your muscles, etc.), then why would you want to learn to swim more efficiently? Wouldn't it just take more time to achieve the same amount of exertion? Of course I understand that if you want to win a race you need to be efficient, but it seems to run counter to the goal of exercising. No?
  - utnick 18y ago
    it wouldn't really take more time because you can still get your heart rate up quickly while swimming correctly. Swimming efficiently also is more of a full body workout I think than just paddling your arms. Also swimming poorly can be frustrating and would make people not want to work out as long or maybe give up swimming alltogether.
  - wallflower 18y ago
    If around 98% of your energy can be lost due to water resistance, small improvements in efficiency are key. TI was the difference between not literally being able to swim 50m straight (near hyperventilating like I ran a 100m dash) and 1 mile swims (albeit slow). As for why I posted about TI, it fits in the hacker ethos - doing something differently but better. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anaerobic http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anaerobic Some beginner swimmers (including myself before TI) swim anaerobically (lactic acid produced, pain in muscles). Only with better technique will you be able to swim aerobically (laps). "Olympic swimmers are able, at best, to convert only 9 percent of their energy into forward movement while swimming the front crawl or freestyle, the fastest and most efficient of the four competitive strokes. (On average, the butterfly, backstroke and breaststroke follow in speed and efficiency.) Most of the rest of us use as much as 98 percent of our energy overcoming water resistance. " (2) "But the real killer for competitive swimmers is a third type of resistance that arises at the interface between air and water—wave drag. Moving along the surface of the water inevitably creates waves. Physically speaking, swimmers force a mass of water in front of them to rise up against gravity. This not only robs swimmers of energy, but it has a disproportionately greater effect the faster they go. The problem is that wave drag increases as the cube of any increase in swimming speed. And it gets worse if a swimmer makes jerky or uneven movements, either bouncing in the water or moving from side to side, because this wastes still more energy making waves." (1) (1) http://environment.newscientist.com/article/mg15921455.600-swim-like-a-fish.html http://environment.newscientist.com/article/mg15921455.600-s... (2) http://gymkhana.iitb.ac.in/~swimclub/swim4.html http://gymkhana.iitb.ac.in/~swimclub/swim4.html
dfranke 18y ago
Total Immersion really is an excellent program. It brought me from totally incompetent to competing on my high school's varsity team within the space of a couple months. I never expected to see it mentioned on news.yc. Actually, though, you don't need to have good technique to get a good workout from swimming. In fact, I think swimming badly is significantly better exercise than swimming well.
- eru 18y ago
  But is it as much fun?
parenthesis 18y ago
I really like swimming. But the chlorine compound (or whatever) in swimming-pool water affects my skin. So I can't swim regularly.
- 13ren 18y ago
  I've found a sauna helps by sweating the compound out of my skin.
- Shooter 18y ago
  Chlorine is by far the most common pool cleaner, but not the only option. Some pools use other methods like ozonation and UV sterilization. Neither of these would bother your skin. Pools like this are admittedly much harder to find, but if you really want to swim it might be worth the effort to track one down. I have a friend that bought an 'endless pool' that uses ozonation technology because of a chlorine allergy. If you use soap and shampoo that are specially formulated to remove chlorine after you swim, it will also help you immensely. Most of the bad effects of chlorine for your skin are from longer-term exposure. Of course, you still have the carcinogen issue...but you can minimize that somewhat by swimming in a cooler temp pool with cool ambient air.
  - parenthesis 18y ago
    Thanks for that. Your comment prompted me to find this international list of non- and low-chlorine pools: http://piscinasana.blogspot.com/ http://piscinasana.blogspot.com/ .
- akd 18y ago
  Where do you live? You can swim safely in almost any random pond.

acgourley 18y ago

That is probably true, but a lot of it depends on the care you take while running. Advice to anyone who runs on anything besides grass or rubberized tracks: buy expensive running shoes ($80+) fitted to you by a someone who knows what they are doing. A sales person at a specialty running store should be qualified. Or go barefoot.

kajecounterhack 18y ago
Once you know what kind of shoes you need (from a specialist or something), go to runningwarehouse.com and use the coupon code CP20 (corporate perks 20% off coupon). That can make a $90 shoe like $65-70 because their shoes are already like 10-20% off to begin with. No discount for asics or mizuno though :(

steveplace 18y ago

They've found higher correlation of intelligence with cardio vs. anaerobic. Although that just may be a function of what kind of person prefers running and swimming as opposed to throwing weights around. I prefer the latter.

xiaoma 18y ago

From page 2: "The study also showed that people cannot use the risk of injury as an excuse not to run -- the runners had fewer injuries of all kinds, including to their knees." In fact, other papers I've read have said that runners and cross-country skiers maintain bone density and joint lubrication into old age, while swimmers and cyclers do not.

kajecounterhack 18y ago

Ah but that has a lot to do with not knowing what shoes to buy. I'm a distance runner, used to get injured a lot, now I wear the right shoes and do 10+ miles a day at 6:00-7:00 mile pace. The key is having a group/friends to run with and enough discipline to do it every day. Swimming is awesome also, but running is easier to do because you don't need a pool or a club to do it.