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I don’t understand why people are so surprised... socialism doesn’t really accept the premise of private property, private land ownership, etc. Why are we surpr

I don’t understand why people are so surprised... socialism doesn’t really accept the premise of private property, private land ownership, etc. Why are we surprised when they ignore international views of land, sea and intellectual property rights?

lazyasciiart 5y ago
Yes, it does. Socialism does not accept the premise of private ownership of the "means of production", but most private property isn't in that set.
- sli 5y ago
  That would be the difference between "private" and "personal" property, for reference.
CameronNemo 5y ago
What types of socialist theory are Chinese youth taught? Many people argue that China is no longer a socialist economy. They have investments and lots of private ownership.
Renaud 5y ago
I'd like to know when was China actually Socialist? It moved from Communism to a form of Capitalism where the single party is basically in control of who is allowed to make money; something that can be taken away by the party at any time. In just a few decades, China managed to have nearly has many billionaires as the US and it won't be long before the US is left in the dust (not that it's a particularly great metric, just shows capitalistic opportunities). China has no respect for boundaries but demands others to respect theirs so it's not like they don't care. They do care all right, a bit too much actually if you ask Vietnam and the Philippines... It's just a matter of what they can get away with. China is flexing its power and it will fill any void (ie Africa) where it can see an opportunity to exploit. It's not like other countries haven't done that before but China is now eager for resources and influence and they are big...
- ajsnigrutin 5y ago
  Communism is a real-world application of socialism... Socialism itself doesn't work on real people. source: was born in a former socialist/communist country.. both former "socialist" and former country.
- crazydoggers 5y ago
  > I'd like to know when was China actually Socialist. China has been socialist since the communists won the Chinese civil war in 1949. China employs capitalist methods in order to further its productive capabilities in order to complete it socialist revolution. Ultimately the Chinese communist party has full and final control of all property. In other words Chinese “capitalism” does not entail private property rights as are guarded in constitutions in other countries. Educational material: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism_with_Chinese_characteristics https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism_with_Chinese_chara... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_Communist_Revolution https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_Communist_Revolution https://www.learningfromchina.net/why-china-is-a-socialist-country-chinas-theory-is-in-line-with-marx-but-not-stalin/ https://www.learningfromchina.net/why-china-is-a-socialist-c...
  - bulgr0z 5y ago
    Europe's socialism (for example) is very different from the Chinese one and does not suppress its citizen's private property rights. The generalization you made about socialism is not accurate outside China.
    - crazydoggers 5y ago
      While Chinese communism is different than European, they both stem from Marxist socialism. Private property rights are only for the good of the state. What laws exist, are for the good of the socialist system, and can be amended by the communist party at any time. Chinese courts do not have the power of judicial review and cannot invalidate a statute on the grounds that it violates the constitution... ie China is a totalitarian system. “Private property” in China is for the benefit of the state. The basic tenant of Chinese government... “From each according to their ability, to each according to his needs” means redistribution is always in the hands of the state. READ the educational material!
hef19898 5y ago
This is more a problem of rampant, unchecked capitalism than anything else.
crazydoggers 5y ago
The lack of education or at least lack of willingness to read and educate oneself in this thread shouldn’t surprise me yet again. I can only come to the conclusion that social media is a net negative on society, since I can’t help educate ignorance, and people are unwilling to educate themselves when they have firmly held beliefs. Social media simply allows people to become more entrenched. And some people will view this comment as the same, a form of relativism. The difference that social media comments gloss over, is there are often truths vs falsehoods. Facts vs prejudice. Social media makes it too easy to confuse the two. HN... you are more of the same. Like Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, etc etc. Unless these websites take measures to actively mod dis-information, they will be a net negative. Don’t get me wrong. It’s definitely debatable how China’s socialism has evolved, what elements of Capitalism it now uses. What it’s future path holds. But no textbook, no Encyclopedia will claim that China is not socialist. To do so is not only ignorant, but in the current climate aids a propaganda narrative that continues to allow massive human rights violations. It’s time social media sites say that user base size, absolute profits, etc are not more important than facts. More people get their information from social media than textbooks, educational systems, and primary sources than ever before. Democracies which require informed citizenship cannot survive in such circumstances. The writing is on the wall all around us. Let’s educate ourselves before we fall into darkness “The dumbing down of American is most evident in the slow decay of substantive content in the enormously influential media, the 30 second sound bites (now down to 10 seconds or less), lowest common denominator programming, credulous presentations on pseudoscience and superstition, but especially a kind of celebration of ignorance.” — Carl Sagan

lazyasciiart 5y ago

Yes, it does. Socialism does not accept the premise of private ownership of the "means of production", but most private property isn't in that set.

sli 5y ago
That would be the difference between "private" and "personal" property, for reference.

CameronNemo 5y ago

What types of socialist theory are Chinese youth taught? Many people argue that China is no longer a socialist economy. They have investments and lots of private ownership.

Renaud 5y ago

I'd like to know when was China actually Socialist? It moved from Communism to a form of Capitalism where the single party is basically in control of who is allowed to make money; something that can be taken away by the party at any time. In just a few decades, China managed to have nearly has many billionaires as the US and it won't be long before the US is left in the dust (not that it's a particularly great metric, just shows capitalistic opportunities). China has no respect for boundaries but demands others to respect theirs so it's not like they don't care. They do care all right, a bit too much actually if you ask Vietnam and the Philippines... It's just a matter of what they can get away with. China is flexing its power and it will fill any void (ie Africa) where it can see an opportunity to exploit. It's not like other countries haven't done that before but China is now eager for resources and influence and they are big...

ajsnigrutin 5y ago
Communism is a real-world application of socialism... Socialism itself doesn't work on real people. source: was born in a former socialist/communist country.. both former "socialist" and former country.
crazydoggers 5y ago
> I'd like to know when was China actually Socialist. China has been socialist since the communists won the Chinese civil war in 1949. China employs capitalist methods in order to further its productive capabilities in order to complete it socialist revolution. Ultimately the Chinese communist party has full and final control of all property. In other words Chinese “capitalism” does not entail private property rights as are guarded in constitutions in other countries. Educational material: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism_with_Chinese_characteristics https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism_with_Chinese_chara... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_Communist_Revolution https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_Communist_Revolution https://www.learningfromchina.net/why-china-is-a-socialist-country-chinas-theory-is-in-line-with-marx-but-not-stalin/ https://www.learningfromchina.net/why-china-is-a-socialist-c...
- bulgr0z 5y ago
  Europe's socialism (for example) is very different from the Chinese one and does not suppress its citizen's private property rights. The generalization you made about socialism is not accurate outside China.
  - crazydoggers 5y ago
    While Chinese communism is different than European, they both stem from Marxist socialism. Private property rights are only for the good of the state. What laws exist, are for the good of the socialist system, and can be amended by the communist party at any time. Chinese courts do not have the power of judicial review and cannot invalidate a statute on the grounds that it violates the constitution... ie China is a totalitarian system. “Private property” in China is for the benefit of the state. The basic tenant of Chinese government... “From each according to their ability, to each according to his needs” means redistribution is always in the hands of the state. READ the educational material!

hef19898 5y ago

This is more a problem of rampant, unchecked capitalism than anything else.

crazydoggers 5y ago

The lack of education or at least lack of willingness to read and educate oneself in this thread shouldn’t surprise me yet again. I can only come to the conclusion that social media is a net negative on society, since I can’t help educate ignorance, and people are unwilling to educate themselves when they have firmly held beliefs. Social media simply allows people to become more entrenched. And some people will view this comment as the same, a form of relativism. The difference that social media comments gloss over, is there are often truths vs falsehoods. Facts vs prejudice. Social media makes it too easy to confuse the two. HN... you are more of the same. Like Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, etc etc. Unless these websites take measures to actively mod dis-information, they will be a net negative. Don’t get me wrong. It’s definitely debatable how China’s socialism has evolved, what elements of Capitalism it now uses. What it’s future path holds. But no textbook, no Encyclopedia will claim that China is not socialist. To do so is not only ignorant, but in the current climate aids a propaganda narrative that continues to allow massive human rights violations. It’s time social media sites say that user base size, absolute profits, etc are not more important than facts. More people get their information from social media than textbooks, educational systems, and primary sources than ever before. Democracies which require informed citizenship cannot survive in such circumstances. The writing is on the wall all around us. Let’s educate ourselves before we fall into darkness “The dumbing down of American is most evident in the slow decay of substantive content in the enormously influential media, the 30 second sound bites (now down to 10 seconds or less), lowest common denominator programming, credulous presentations on pseudoscience and superstition, but especially a kind of celebration of ignorance.” — Carl Sagan