7 ms·

$10 an hour isnt a livable wage in the US. Why would you advocate for people to become paupers?

by digsy 5y ago

throwawayboise 5y ago
It is a false assumption that everyone who wants to work needs a wage that will support a family of four with no other income.
- throwaaskjdfh 5y ago
  > It is a false assumption that everyone who wants to work needs a wage that will support a family of four with no other income. Maybe, but the post at the root of this thread invokes both a $10/hour wage and the virtue of starting a family.
  - MisterBastahrd 5y ago
    It's not even "maybe." His supposition is incredibly clueless. He ignores FICA / Medicare payments, for one. That $100 in his ideal scenario? He never accounted for it. Just like he doesn't understand that most big box hourly workers don't get to defer taxes til the end of the year.
- jwilber 5y ago
  You can’t live out of poverty in the average American city on $10/hour, even if you’re single. I see your name mentions Boise - believe me when I say Idaho, ranked 39th in state population size, is decidedly not representative of the US at large.
b9a2cab5 5y ago
It may not be in rich West Coast cities with NIMBY problems where the cost of everything is 3x what it should be, but $10/h is easily livable in flyover towns. The primary cost of living is rent and rent in places with functioning city councils is low. I'm talking $500/mo for a decent sized apartment. $10/h is $1600, you're not paying taxes with that low of a wage. Add in car payments, car insurance, health insurance, and food and you've probably got $100 to spare every month. Seriously, the only reason wages need to be so high for low skill jobs in California is because the idiots governing here can't wrap their head around building more housing and every little social justice issue blocks construction approvals. If you cut the rent prices by 5x in the Bay you'd make $10/h a living wage.
- XorNot 5y ago
  Flyover towns, generally, don't have those jobs though. The people who are looking to employ are not in those towns, they're in the places where living expenses are high. The idea you're going to cut rent prices by a factor of 5 is about as detached from reality as it's possible to get.
  - b9a2cab5 5y ago
    Flyover towns certainly have $10/h jobs. Amazon pays $15/h and it's in plenty of flyover towns. If you live in a bubble where you think flyover towns somehow don't have $10/h jobs you need to get out of the Bay. They don't have high paying 6-figure salaried jobs, though. The people in places where living expenses are high are getting $18 minimum and often times $22-25/h. The $15 "living wage" myth is garbage because HCoL areas already have higher wages and LCoL areas aren't that expensive that you couldn't live on $10/h. If you raise the minimum you won't change the shitty living situation in HCoL areas and you'll just drive closures and automation in LCoL areas. Source: Bay Area restaurant job listings > The idea you're going to cut rent prices by a factor of 5 is about as detached from reality as it's possible to get. I never said you'd be able to cut rent prices by 5x, merely that doing so would alleviate basically every concern about a "living wage". I know that West Coast NIMBYism would never let the level of density needed to achieve that happen. In China you can get an apartment for <3k RMB/mo even in a city like Shanghai, but in China the government can tell you to GTFO and bulldoze your apartment and replace it with skyscrapers which would never happen in the U.S. If you just tore down anything in SF under 10 floors and replaced it with 40 floor towers you'd instantly increase density by 20x.
- pessimizer 5y ago
  > you've probably got $100 to spare every month. Wow, that's more than enough for child care.
  - jason0597 5y ago
    And now you see why no one is having children nowadays. It's the natural order of late stage capitalism. Having children is just not rewarding from a cost-benefit analysis
wernercd 5y ago
I'd advocate the same path I took: Better yourself and stop being worth minimum wage. I worked fast food, Walmart, etc. I was worth minimum wage. I got an education, developed skills that are hard to find and become worth more. My other posts point out that my phrasing was wrong (people are hung up on the word lazy) but my points remain: The US has a perverse benefit system that makes it worth more to work less before a certain point. https://www.budget.senate.gov/newsroom/budget-background/the-welfare-cliff-how-the-benefit-scale-discourages-work https://www.budget.senate.gov/newsroom/budget-background/the...
- GPerson 5y ago
  What are your hard to find skills?
  - wernercd 5y ago
    Main skill is Programmer although I can do Admin and Network Support. 10 years+ experience and growing. Took years of school and a few low paying jobs to get the experience.

$10 an hour isnt a livable wage in the US. Why would you advocate for people to become paupers?

by digsy 5y ago

$10 an hour isnt a livable wage in the US. Why would you advocate for people to become paupers?

It is a false assumption that everyone who wants to work needs a wage that will support a family of four with no other income.

throwaaskjdfh 5y ago
> It is a false assumption that everyone who wants to work needs a wage that will support a family of four with no other income. Maybe, but the post at the root of this thread invokes both a $10/hour wage and the virtue of starting a family.
- MisterBastahrd 5y ago
  It's not even "maybe." His supposition is incredibly clueless. He ignores FICA / Medicare payments, for one. That $100 in his ideal scenario? He never accounted for it. Just like he doesn't understand that most big box hourly workers don't get to defer taxes til the end of the year.
jwilber 5y ago
You can’t live out of poverty in the average American city on $10/hour, even if you’re single. I see your name mentions Boise - believe me when I say Idaho, ranked 39th in state population size, is decidedly not representative of the US at large.

b9a2cab5 5y ago

It may not be in rich West Coast cities with NIMBY problems where the cost of everything is 3x what it should be, but $10/h is easily livable in flyover towns. The primary cost of living is rent and rent in places with functioning city councils is low. I'm talking $500/mo for a decent sized apartment. $10/h is $1600, you're not paying taxes with that low of a wage. Add in car payments, car insurance, health insurance, and food and you've probably got $100 to spare every month. Seriously, the only reason wages need to be so high for low skill jobs in California is because the idiots governing here can't wrap their head around building more housing and every little social justice issue blocks construction approvals. If you cut the rent prices by 5x in the Bay you'd make $10/h a living wage.

XorNot 5y ago
Flyover towns, generally, don't have those jobs though. The people who are looking to employ are not in those towns, they're in the places where living expenses are high. The idea you're going to cut rent prices by a factor of 5 is about as detached from reality as it's possible to get.
- b9a2cab5 5y ago
  Flyover towns certainly have $10/h jobs. Amazon pays $15/h and it's in plenty of flyover towns. If you live in a bubble where you think flyover towns somehow don't have $10/h jobs you need to get out of the Bay. They don't have high paying 6-figure salaried jobs, though. The people in places where living expenses are high are getting $18 minimum and often times $22-25/h. The $15 "living wage" myth is garbage because HCoL areas already have higher wages and LCoL areas aren't that expensive that you couldn't live on $10/h. If you raise the minimum you won't change the shitty living situation in HCoL areas and you'll just drive closures and automation in LCoL areas. Source: Bay Area restaurant job listings > The idea you're going to cut rent prices by a factor of 5 is about as detached from reality as it's possible to get. I never said you'd be able to cut rent prices by 5x, merely that doing so would alleviate basically every concern about a "living wage". I know that West Coast NIMBYism would never let the level of density needed to achieve that happen. In China you can get an apartment for <3k RMB/mo even in a city like Shanghai, but in China the government can tell you to GTFO and bulldoze your apartment and replace it with skyscrapers which would never happen in the U.S. If you just tore down anything in SF under 10 floors and replaced it with 40 floor towers you'd instantly increase density by 20x.
pessimizer 5y ago
> you've probably got $100 to spare every month. Wow, that's more than enough for child care.
- jason0597 5y ago
  And now you see why no one is having children nowadays. It's the natural order of late stage capitalism. Having children is just not rewarding from a cost-benefit analysis

wernercd 5y ago

I'd advocate the same path I took: Better yourself and stop being worth minimum wage. I worked fast food, Walmart, etc. I was worth minimum wage. I got an education, developed skills that are hard to find and become worth more. My other posts point out that my phrasing was wrong (people are hung up on the word lazy) but my points remain: The US has a perverse benefit system that makes it worth more to work less before a certain point. https://www.budget.senate.gov/newsroom/budget-background/the-welfare-cliff-how-the-benefit-scale-discourages-work https://www.budget.senate.gov/newsroom/budget-background/the...

GPerson 5y ago
What are your hard to find skills?
- wernercd 5y ago
  Main skill is Programmer although I can do Admin and Network Support. 10 years+ experience and growing. Took years of school and a few low paying jobs to get the experience.