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> the end Cicero was silenced by those who were taking power. This is a spin on the fact that he was a participant in the murder of Caesar. Cicero was trying t

by MR4D 5y ago

> the end Cicero was silenced by those who were taking power. This is a spin on the fact that he was a participant in the murder of Caesar. Cicero was trying to take back power that had been lost to a very popular Leader by participating in the murder of said leader.[0] The killers and conspirators involved were all hunted down and killed. [0] - for those not up on Roman institutions, Dictator had a different role than we would ascribe today, albeit with many similarities.

coffexx 5y ago
The historical consensus seems to be that Cicero, while probably amenable to the plot, was a witness only, and not involved with the conspirators until after the deed was done.
philipov 5y ago
Cicero wasn't murdered for any connection with the assassination of Caesar. He was murdered because Marc Anthony personally hated him for having denounced Anthony in a series of speeches known as the Philippics. When Octavian and Anthony were setting up the Second Triumvirate, Cicero's life was one of Anthony's demands.
- lr4444lr 5y ago
  He openly praised at least the main conspirator, Cassius, in his letters: http://attalus.org/translate/cassius.html#12.1 http://attalus.org/translate/cassius.html#12.1 He loved the Roman Republic and it's senatorial grandeur, and hated Caesar for his illegal arrogation of power.
- edmundsauto 5y ago
  Before we laud him as a saint, wasn't Cicero the guy who felt the plebian/patrician divide was just and right? My (poor) memory is that he was across the aisle from Caesar under the auspices of "no commoners" as well as "no dictators".
  - ysavir 5y ago
    No one is lauding him as a saint. It's an objection to likening the murder of Cicero to censorship by the state. Cicero was killed because Antony had a personal vendetta against Cicero. Antony's political partner, Octavian, had a good relationship with Cicero and even looked on him as a father figure. Giving him up to Antony was a compromise he was very unhappy to make (but Antony was not flexible on this demand). Cicero, if anything, is an example of how one can be loud and open with their thoughts and actually get along well with political leaders (and he got on well with Caesar as well, supposedly). His murder is primarily indicative of Antony's pride.
  - greenwich26 5y ago
    Cicero was a conservative in some ways. But I don't think he was particularly prejudiced or classist, for the time. Remember that he was technically a plebeian himself, although obviously a privileged and successful one.
    - CalChris 5y ago
      Cicero's father was of the equestrian order, not patrician but definitely not plebeian. Think upper middle class from the midwest who goes to the right schools and ends up in DC.
      - philipov 5y ago
        Calling equestrians the upper middle class is not accurate. They were firmly upper class, just the lower portion of the upper class. If the senatorial class was roughly the billionaires, then the equites were the ten and hundred millionaires. Perhaps not as rich as the very top of the upper class, but still a league above the upper middle class.
        qwytw 5y ago
        Technically it was illegal for senators to engage in any commercial activity besides agriculture so they still had to really on the equites who directly exploited the natives in the provinces to give them their cut (tax collection was privatised in the republican period). So it's not unlikely that there were individual equites who were more wealthy than many Senators.
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CalChris 5y ago
Cicero wasn't involved in the murder of Caesar. He was more republican than aristocrat and thus not trusted by the Liberatores. Also he was very anti-Anthony: The Philippics, 14 speeches in 44 and 43 given after the death of Caesar. Another triumvirate was formed after the death of Caesar with Anthony, Octavian and Lepidus. The proscriptions were from that triumvirate and not just Anthony. Cicero favored Octavian but as future emperor, Octavian favored Octavian. Antony certainly hated Cicero and Octavian didn't find Cicero all that useful and well, that was that.
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by MR4D 5y ago

coffexx 5y ago

The historical consensus seems to be that Cicero, while probably amenable to the plot, was a witness only, and not involved with the conspirators until after the deed was done.

philipov 5y ago

Cicero wasn't murdered for any connection with the assassination of Caesar. He was murdered because Marc Anthony personally hated him for having denounced Anthony in a series of speeches known as the Philippics. When Octavian and Anthony were setting up the Second Triumvirate, Cicero's life was one of Anthony's demands.

lr4444lr 5y ago
He openly praised at least the main conspirator, Cassius, in his letters: http://attalus.org/translate/cassius.html#12.1 http://attalus.org/translate/cassius.html#12.1 He loved the Roman Republic and it's senatorial grandeur, and hated Caesar for his illegal arrogation of power.
edmundsauto 5y ago
Before we laud him as a saint, wasn't Cicero the guy who felt the plebian/patrician divide was just and right? My (poor) memory is that he was across the aisle from Caesar under the auspices of "no commoners" as well as "no dictators".
- ysavir 5y ago
  No one is lauding him as a saint. It's an objection to likening the murder of Cicero to censorship by the state. Cicero was killed because Antony had a personal vendetta against Cicero. Antony's political partner, Octavian, had a good relationship with Cicero and even looked on him as a father figure. Giving him up to Antony was a compromise he was very unhappy to make (but Antony was not flexible on this demand). Cicero, if anything, is an example of how one can be loud and open with their thoughts and actually get along well with political leaders (and he got on well with Caesar as well, supposedly). His murder is primarily indicative of Antony's pride.
- greenwich26 5y ago
  Cicero was a conservative in some ways. But I don't think he was particularly prejudiced or classist, for the time. Remember that he was technically a plebeian himself, although obviously a privileged and successful one.
  - CalChris 5y ago
    Cicero's father was of the equestrian order, not patrician but definitely not plebeian. Think upper middle class from the midwest who goes to the right schools and ends up in DC.
    - philipov 5y ago
      Calling equestrians the upper middle class is not accurate. They were firmly upper class, just the lower portion of the upper class. If the senatorial class was roughly the billionaires, then the equites were the ten and hundred millionaires. Perhaps not as rich as the very top of the upper class, but still a league above the upper middle class.
      - qwytw 5y ago
        Technically it was illegal for senators to engage in any commercial activity besides agriculture so they still had to really on the equites who directly exploited the natives in the provinces to give them their cut (tax collection was privatised in the republican period). So it's not unlikely that there were individual equites who were more wealthy than many Senators.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

CalChris 5y ago

Cicero wasn't involved in the murder of Caesar. He was more republican than aristocrat and thus not trusted by the Liberatores. Also he was very anti-Anthony: The Philippics, 14 speeches in 44 and 43 given after the death of Caesar. Another triumvirate was formed after the death of Caesar with Anthony, Octavian and Lepidus. The proscriptions were from that triumvirate and not just Anthony. Cicero favored Octavian but as future emperor, Octavian favored Octavian. Antony certainly hated Cicero and Octavian didn't find Cicero all that useful and well, that was that.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]