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Most societies function perfectly fine without a constitutional protection for speech. In fact a few countries rank better than the United States on press freed

Most societies function perfectly fine without a constitutional protection for speech. In fact a few countries rank better than the United States on press freedom without it.

slowmovintarget 5y ago
That's the "trains run on time" argument, though.
- tolbish 5y ago
  In terms of countries, what are some examples of free societies that fully embrace free speech?
barry-cotter 5y ago
This isn’t an argument about how good political scientists think journalists have it. The dispute is about free speech rights. For the people, plebeians of no special importance, not a priestly class with graduate degrees who have been anointed journalists by getting their Masters from the right J school, or getting an Ivy League degree.
- SahAssar 5y ago
  So what would you choose as a measurement of how free speech is in a country? Usually the press is chosen since it's job in a functioning free country is to scrutinize the state and other powers. So if the press is free and it is free to distribute it's voice unimpeded by corporate or state influence then it is considered a more free state.
mnouquet 5y ago
The 1st Amendment is a hell of a lot more than freedom of the press.
pochamago 5y ago
The press freedom index places Burkina Faso, a country that bans journalists from visiting displacement camps, higher than the US, so I'm a little skeptical of its findings
- fvdessen 5y ago
  Can journalists visit Guantanamo?
  - pochamago 5y ago
    There are limitations, but yes. https://www.miamiherald.com/news/nation-world/world/americas/guantanamo/article50358355.html https://www.miamiherald.com/news/nation-world/world/americas... I would also personally draw a line between access to a military prison and what is effectively a refugee camp
  - grzm 5y ago
    As far as I can tell, yes. There are rules regarding access that were written in 2010. The most recent info I found on the matter (during my admittedly limited internet searches) are in relation to new regulations that were introduced and then removed in August, 2019: - https://pressfreedomtracker.us/all-incidents/amid-backlash-department-of-defense-backs-away-from-new-press-regulations-at-guantánamo-bay/ https://pressfreedomtracker.us/all-incidents/amid-backlash-d... - https://theintercept.com/2019/08/30/guantanamo-bay-press-restrictions/ https://theintercept.com/2019/08/30/guantanamo-bay-press-res... If you're aware of more recent information, do share. As I said, this is just the results from a cursory search and may not reflect the current situation.
- chmod775 5y ago
  > The press freedom index places Burkina Faso, a country that bans journalists from visiting displacement camps, higher than the US The places the US does not let journalists access are countless. A prominent example are most of the US' border facilities, the detention-like migrant "housing" facilities among them.[1] So what you brought up can clearly not be a differentiator between those countries in terms of such an index. [1]: https://edition.cnn.com/2021/03/22/politics/biden-administration-press-access-border-facilities/index.html https://edition.cnn.com/2021/03/22/politics/biden-administra... Edit: To be fair to Burkina Faso I should point out that their 'displacement camps' are a case of taking care of people in need: refugees of war. Meanwhile the US facilities are just locking people up before sending them home.

Most societies function perfectly fine without a constitutional protection for speech. In fact a few countries rank better than the United States on press freedom without it.

slowmovintarget 5y ago

That's the "trains run on time" argument, though.

tolbish 5y ago
In terms of countries, what are some examples of free societies that fully embrace free speech?

barry-cotter 5y ago

This isn’t an argument about how good political scientists think journalists have it. The dispute is about free speech rights. For the people, plebeians of no special importance, not a priestly class with graduate degrees who have been anointed journalists by getting their Masters from the right J school, or getting an Ivy League degree.

SahAssar 5y ago
So what would you choose as a measurement of how free speech is in a country? Usually the press is chosen since it's job in a functioning free country is to scrutinize the state and other powers. So if the press is free and it is free to distribute it's voice unimpeded by corporate or state influence then it is considered a more free state.

mnouquet 5y ago

The 1st Amendment is a hell of a lot more than freedom of the press.

pochamago 5y ago

The press freedom index places Burkina Faso, a country that bans journalists from visiting displacement camps, higher than the US, so I'm a little skeptical of its findings

fvdessen 5y ago
Can journalists visit Guantanamo?
- pochamago 5y ago
  There are limitations, but yes. https://www.miamiherald.com/news/nation-world/world/americas/guantanamo/article50358355.html https://www.miamiherald.com/news/nation-world/world/americas... I would also personally draw a line between access to a military prison and what is effectively a refugee camp
- grzm 5y ago
  As far as I can tell, yes. There are rules regarding access that were written in 2010. The most recent info I found on the matter (during my admittedly limited internet searches) are in relation to new regulations that were introduced and then removed in August, 2019: - https://pressfreedomtracker.us/all-incidents/amid-backlash-department-of-defense-backs-away-from-new-press-regulations-at-guantánamo-bay/ https://pressfreedomtracker.us/all-incidents/amid-backlash-d... - https://theintercept.com/2019/08/30/guantanamo-bay-press-restrictions/ https://theintercept.com/2019/08/30/guantanamo-bay-press-res... If you're aware of more recent information, do share. As I said, this is just the results from a cursory search and may not reflect the current situation.
chmod775 5y ago
> The press freedom index places Burkina Faso, a country that bans journalists from visiting displacement camps, higher than the US The places the US does not let journalists access are countless. A prominent example are most of the US' border facilities, the detention-like migrant "housing" facilities among them.[1] So what you brought up can clearly not be a differentiator between those countries in terms of such an index. [1]: https://edition.cnn.com/2021/03/22/politics/biden-administration-press-access-border-facilities/index.html https://edition.cnn.com/2021/03/22/politics/biden-administra... Edit: To be fair to Burkina Faso I should point out that their 'displacement camps' are a case of taking care of people in need: refugees of war. Meanwhile the US facilities are just locking people up before sending them home.