4 ms·

What is the point being made here? That all the comments in the first six pages are from 7+ years ago?

by mkishi 5y ago

happytoexplain 5y ago
The examples, as I would expect of the phrase in context, have a dismissive tone that reframes the question as an assertion. It's usually a pretty innocent faux pas, and can feel natural to say, so it can be hard to catch oneself in it, but I try not to say things like "simply X" or "just X" when explaining or asking things, in an effort to keep a neutral tone. Is that the point being made here? I don't know.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
for_i_in_range 5y ago
My take: This is the second post I’ve come upon recently wherein it reminds you of the power of search; i.e. filtering on power phrases that may create combinations of thoughts and ideas otherwise never had. The other post of similar essence is this one: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27060816 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27060816 I’ve begun keeping a log of such power phrases. Does anyone know if there’s an open public repository for such phrases? That’d be useful. If not, I’m happy to set up a Google Doc or Github Repo or whatever is best (if there’s significant interest).
- dredmorbius 5y ago
  I'm not familiar with the, er, phrase "power phrase" in this context. I note you're the person using the phrase in both this thread and in the comment you link. What's your source of the phrase?
  - for_i_in_range 5y ago
    My source is self :) It’s inspired from books and concepts in the field of copywriting. For instance, this book (no affiliate link): https://www.amazon.com/Phrases-That-Sell-Ultimate-Products/dp/0809229773 https://www.amazon.com/Phrases-That-Sell-Ultimate-Products/d... And this article uses similar language: https://www.verticalresponse.com/blog/20-powerful-marketing-words-phrases-that-sell-or-repel/ https://www.verticalresponse.com/blog/20-powerful-marketing-... Is your point that I should have first defined “power phrase”? Or cited a source? I’m not familiar with appropriate convention.
    - dredmorbius 5y ago
      Thanks. My own usual practice when using a phrase I've coined (or think I've coined) is to reference it with "what I call", to indicate that this is a (possibly) non-standard or novel useage. That's a practice I've encountered by numerous others in writing, and serves both to claim credit and give notice to the reader that the usage may not be widespread. Some examples appear in my HN history: https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&query=by%3Adredmorbius%20%22what%20I%20call%22&sort=byPopularity&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&qu... And if it's not clear what the phrase means, then yes, giving a brief definition or noting its inspiration can be quite useful. Now that you've clarified all of that .... I'm not sure "power phase" does much here. Or maybe that it doesn't do what you'd like it to do. You wrote: "This is the second post I’ve come upon recently wherein it reminds you of the power of search; i.e. filtering on power phrases that may create combinations of thoughts and ideas otherwise never had." The first part, "the power of search", doesn't rely on "power phrases" at all, but simply full-text search, a/k/a phrase search. (As opposed, say, to simply listing words which might be joined by AND or OR logic without respect to position within the string.) The second bit, "create combinations of thoughts and ideas otherwise never had", gives more potency, but: 1. All language creates thoughts and ideas in the mind of the reader or listener at the initiative of the writer or speaker. 2. "Power" carries strong implications of coercion or manipulation. Themselves common practices in sales and marketing. 3. There's a room for the notion of inspiring or motivating or unlocking new thoughts in a discussion, and some of the more productive uses of "why don't you just" might land in this region. (The less-productive uses tend to display lazy thinking or ignorance.) The classic example (mentioned by someone else in this thread) is of the Gordian Knot: solving a complex problem by shifting the solution domain entirely. Again, "power' seems to me a poor choice here as it suggests to me merely increasing the effort as opposed to seeking a different route. I'd look for a word with meaning more along the lines of "inspiration" or "muse" or "stimulating" or "unlocking". Just my view.
dredmorbius 5y ago
A question on the use of this phrase was made earlier today in another thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27414444 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27414444 (I didn't submit this item, but suspect jgrahamc may have also seen that comment.)
gitgud 5y ago
They are sorted by popularity, but the API stopped revealing comment votes about 7 years ago, so no new comments will ever rank in popularity.
- drannex 5y ago
  I've always wondered why the Algolia search has always been so dependent/focused on older results, always had to sort by date. That makes a bit more sense, thanks.
viraptor 5y ago
> That all the comments in the first six pages are from 7+ years ago? Why not simply switch to the "past year" view or sort by time to see the more recent ones ;)
goodpoint 5y ago
The point is that "why not simply" is pretty patronizing and dismissive. The use of "simply" implies that the counterpart failed to see a simple solution.

What is the point being made here? That all the comments in the first six pages are from 7+ years ago?

by mkishi 5y ago

What is the point being made here? That all the comments in the first six pages are from 7+ years ago?

The examples, as I would expect of the phrase in context, have a dismissive tone that reframes the question as an assertion. It's usually a pretty innocent faux pas, and can feel natural to say, so it can be hard to catch oneself in it, but I try not to say things like "simply X" or "just X" when explaining or asking things, in an effort to keep a neutral tone. Is that the point being made here? I don't know.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

for_i_in_range 5y ago

My take: This is the second post I’ve come upon recently wherein it reminds you of the power of search; i.e. filtering on power phrases that may create combinations of thoughts and ideas otherwise never had. The other post of similar essence is this one: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27060816 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27060816 I’ve begun keeping a log of such power phrases. Does anyone know if there’s an open public repository for such phrases? That’d be useful. If not, I’m happy to set up a Google Doc or Github Repo or whatever is best (if there’s significant interest).

dredmorbius 5y ago
I'm not familiar with the, er, phrase "power phrase" in this context. I note you're the person using the phrase in both this thread and in the comment you link. What's your source of the phrase?
- for_i_in_range 5y ago
  My source is self :) It’s inspired from books and concepts in the field of copywriting. For instance, this book (no affiliate link): https://www.amazon.com/Phrases-That-Sell-Ultimate-Products/dp/0809229773 https://www.amazon.com/Phrases-That-Sell-Ultimate-Products/d... And this article uses similar language: https://www.verticalresponse.com/blog/20-powerful-marketing-words-phrases-that-sell-or-repel/ https://www.verticalresponse.com/blog/20-powerful-marketing-... Is your point that I should have first defined “power phrase”? Or cited a source? I’m not familiar with appropriate convention.
  - dredmorbius 5y ago
    Thanks. My own usual practice when using a phrase I've coined (or think I've coined) is to reference it with "what I call", to indicate that this is a (possibly) non-standard or novel useage. That's a practice I've encountered by numerous others in writing, and serves both to claim credit and give notice to the reader that the usage may not be widespread. Some examples appear in my HN history: https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&query=by%3Adredmorbius%20%22what%20I%20call%22&sort=byPopularity&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&qu... And if it's not clear what the phrase means, then yes, giving a brief definition or noting its inspiration can be quite useful. Now that you've clarified all of that .... I'm not sure "power phase" does much here. Or maybe that it doesn't do what you'd like it to do. You wrote: "This is the second post I’ve come upon recently wherein it reminds you of the power of search; i.e. filtering on power phrases that may create combinations of thoughts and ideas otherwise never had." The first part, "the power of search", doesn't rely on "power phrases" at all, but simply full-text search, a/k/a phrase search. (As opposed, say, to simply listing words which might be joined by AND or OR logic without respect to position within the string.) The second bit, "create combinations of thoughts and ideas otherwise never had", gives more potency, but: 1. All language creates thoughts and ideas in the mind of the reader or listener at the initiative of the writer or speaker. 2. "Power" carries strong implications of coercion or manipulation. Themselves common practices in sales and marketing. 3. There's a room for the notion of inspiring or motivating or unlocking new thoughts in a discussion, and some of the more productive uses of "why don't you just" might land in this region. (The less-productive uses tend to display lazy thinking or ignorance.) The classic example (mentioned by someone else in this thread) is of the Gordian Knot: solving a complex problem by shifting the solution domain entirely. Again, "power' seems to me a poor choice here as it suggests to me merely increasing the effort as opposed to seeking a different route. I'd look for a word with meaning more along the lines of "inspiration" or "muse" or "stimulating" or "unlocking". Just my view.

dredmorbius 5y ago

A question on the use of this phrase was made earlier today in another thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27414444 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27414444 (I didn't submit this item, but suspect jgrahamc may have also seen that comment.)

gitgud 5y ago

They are sorted by popularity, but the API stopped revealing comment votes about 7 years ago, so no new comments will ever rank in popularity.

drannex 5y ago
I've always wondered why the Algolia search has always been so dependent/focused on older results, always had to sort by date. That makes a bit more sense, thanks.

viraptor 5y ago

> That all the comments in the first six pages are from 7+ years ago? Why not simply switch to the "past year" view or sort by time to see the more recent ones ;)

goodpoint 5y ago

The point is that "why not simply" is pretty patronizing and dismissive. The use of "simply" implies that the counterpart failed to see a simple solution.