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Have you ever talked to any of these people you're laughing at? Maybe there is some nuance or background you're not aware of. I'm not a teacher, but I think of

Have you ever talked to any of these people you're laughing at? Maybe there is some nuance or background you're not aware of. I'm not a teacher, but I think often when they talk about old textbooks, the issue is that they are physically falling apart, not just that they were published a long time ago. These books are in continuous use by children, so you can't compare it to a book you've had on your shelf for 40 years. As for lesson plans, most teachers don't have the luxury to just pick a plan they think is best. Every state, district, individual school might have its own rules about what can and must be taught, and teachers often aren't given much say in that.

WalterBright 5y ago
I understand that textbooks fall apart and need replacement. I'm just talking about the complaints that they are outdated. The complaint I constantly hear from teachers is they work their fingers to the bone preparing lesson plans. I ask why are they making them from scratch, why not share? and don't get a response. > Every state, district, individual school might have its own rules about what can and must be taught, and teachers often aren't given much say in that. Then why do they say they spend all this effort creating lesson plans, not even re-using what they used last year? One teacher told me she spent her summer writing lesson plans for next year. I asked why she didn't re-use the ones she wrote for last year? She said they had to be custom made for each student. I asked how could she custom make them in the summer, when she didn't know which students she'd be getting in the fall? That was the end of that discussion.
- coryrc 5y ago
  The teachers I know do reuse their lesson plans when they teach the same class. One of the biggest values of seniority is being able to teach the same class every year. Why they don't standardize has everything to do with the kind of people who become teachers and what they want to be doing with their time.
  - WalterBright 5y ago
    > The teachers I know do reuse their lesson plans when they teach the same class. Of course they do. I knew I was being buffaloed. Though the point stands that why don't they share lesson plans? Why do we need 3.7 million unique lesson plans? There ought to be plenty of off-the-shelf plans to use.
    - coryrc 5y ago
      The teachers I know do start with standard lesson plans, but for reasons I don't understand they feel the need to customize them.
      - caboteria 5y ago
        NIH is a powerful sentiment in many areas, not just tech.
        chris_wot 5y ago
        Or perhaps every classroom is filled with unique individuals with differing learning needs?
        WalterBright 5y ago
        How can they develop unique lesson plans the summer before they know which students they get?
        burkaman 5y ago
        Talk to teachers from the grade below, think about what hasn't worked well in your class the last few years, think about how your school district might differ from that of the lesson plan you're modifying. For example, maybe you need to modify some take home science experiments because your kids tend not to have easy access to the right materials. Or, maybe the elementary school math program is more advanced than average, so as a middle school teacher you need to modify any standard lesson plan so you're not repeating material the kids already know. Or, maybe as a Spanish teacher you need to figure out how to effectively deal with a class where usually half the kids are children of immigrants and already close to fluent. Or, maybe as a history teacher you have an assignment the kids used to love where they make a Facebook profile of a historical figure, but now most kids aren't using Facebook anymore and the assignment isn't really engaging them. Or, maybe your town has some historical sites that you'd like to make field trips to, so you want to add some lessons to give some specific context around them. Or, maybe as a P.E. teacher the gym is being renovated and you're gonna have to work around that. Or, maybe a local private school just closed and you're expecting to get a bunch of its students in your class next year. Or, maybe a lot of your kids can't afford TI-84s but the school FINALLY got funding to purchase enough for the whole class. etc. etc. etc.
- treeman79 5y ago
  Yes. My wife had dealt with this nonsense for years. She was ready to quit her school and the major negotiation point was reusing lessons from prior year. School finally relented.
- mattkrause 5y ago
  Were they IEPs? In the US, public school students with disabilities (learning and otherwise) are legally entitled to “Individualized Educational Programs”, which is supposed to be tailored to their particular needs and abilities. For example, a student with a speech impairment might be allowed to pre-record a presentation, or do it in private, rather than live in front of the whole class. There are a lot of requirements, and putting together something that passes legal muster and really tries to support the student seems like a lot of work. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Individualized_Education_Program https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Individualized_Education_Progr...
  - WalterBright 5y ago
    No, they weren't special ed teachers.

WalterBright 5y ago

I understand that textbooks fall apart and need replacement. I'm just talking about the complaints that they are outdated. The complaint I constantly hear from teachers is they work their fingers to the bone preparing lesson plans. I ask why are they making them from scratch, why not share? and don't get a response. > Every state, district, individual school might have its own rules about what can and must be taught, and teachers often aren't given much say in that. Then why do they say they spend all this effort creating lesson plans, not even re-using what they used last year? One teacher told me she spent her summer writing lesson plans for next year. I asked why she didn't re-use the ones she wrote for last year? She said they had to be custom made for each student. I asked how could she custom make them in the summer, when she didn't know which students she'd be getting in the fall? That was the end of that discussion.

coryrc 5y ago
The teachers I know do reuse their lesson plans when they teach the same class. One of the biggest values of seniority is being able to teach the same class every year. Why they don't standardize has everything to do with the kind of people who become teachers and what they want to be doing with their time.
- WalterBright 5y ago
  > The teachers I know do reuse their lesson plans when they teach the same class. Of course they do. I knew I was being buffaloed. Though the point stands that why don't they share lesson plans? Why do we need 3.7 million unique lesson plans? There ought to be plenty of off-the-shelf plans to use.
  - coryrc 5y ago
    The teachers I know do start with standard lesson plans, but for reasons I don't understand they feel the need to customize them.
    - caboteria 5y ago
      NIH is a powerful sentiment in many areas, not just tech.
      - chris_wot 5y ago
        Or perhaps every classroom is filled with unique individuals with differing learning needs?
        WalterBright 5y ago
        How can they develop unique lesson plans the summer before they know which students they get?
        burkaman 5y ago
        Talk to teachers from the grade below, think about what hasn't worked well in your class the last few years, think about how your school district might differ from that of the lesson plan you're modifying. For example, maybe you need to modify some take home science experiments because your kids tend not to have easy access to the right materials. Or, maybe the elementary school math program is more advanced than average, so as a middle school teacher you need to modify any standard lesson plan so you're not repeating material the kids already know. Or, maybe as a Spanish teacher you need to figure out how to effectively deal with a class where usually half the kids are children of immigrants and already close to fluent. Or, maybe as a history teacher you have an assignment the kids used to love where they make a Facebook profile of a historical figure, but now most kids aren't using Facebook anymore and the assignment isn't really engaging them. Or, maybe your town has some historical sites that you'd like to make field trips to, so you want to add some lessons to give some specific context around them. Or, maybe as a P.E. teacher the gym is being renovated and you're gonna have to work around that. Or, maybe a local private school just closed and you're expecting to get a bunch of its students in your class next year. Or, maybe a lot of your kids can't afford TI-84s but the school FINALLY got funding to purchase enough for the whole class. etc. etc. etc.
treeman79 5y ago
Yes. My wife had dealt with this nonsense for years. She was ready to quit her school and the major negotiation point was reusing lessons from prior year. School finally relented.
mattkrause 5y ago
Were they IEPs? In the US, public school students with disabilities (learning and otherwise) are legally entitled to “Individualized Educational Programs”, which is supposed to be tailored to their particular needs and abilities. For example, a student with a speech impairment might be allowed to pre-record a presentation, or do it in private, rather than live in front of the whole class. There are a lot of requirements, and putting together something that passes legal muster and really tries to support the student seems like a lot of work. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Individualized_Education_Program https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Individualized_Education_Progr...
- WalterBright 5y ago
  No, they weren't special ed teachers.