5 ms·

I feel like a failure after reading this list. Is there a difference between a "senior engineer" and a "highly productive engineer with a long rap sheet of exp

I feel like a failure after reading this list. Is there a difference between a "senior engineer" and a "highly productive engineer with a long rap sheet of experience, that constantly feels like it's never enough"?

sirmike_ 5y ago
Feel it if you must but even this list is woefully incomplete if we are to strike the cynic's position! Not everyone is going to encounter all these in one role. Not even in a whole career. A lot of these are super redundant in my opinion. If you boil them down I bet a lot of these would be mirrored in one living ones life in general. Some of them can be taught but so much more is earned by grit and experience. I am not pooping on this site at all ... just remember everything in the modern world is made by a human hand. Frail and limited and built on billions of failed attempts. Life is iterative and unpredictable. It is a journey after all. Cruel and wide, with beauty written large everywhere in plain site.
- sirmike_ 5y ago
  *sight
kec 5y ago
Senior/Principle/Staff/etc titles are typically less about raw competence or tenure and more about leadership. A senior will typically spend most of their time working on high level design and overall strategy for a project, with execution left to more junior engineers. Seniors should be technical enough to jump in if necessary and they should guide junior engineers as needed but execution is not the main focus of the role.
jpeloquin 5y ago
I think "senior engineer" is just a role with responsibilities that include the stuff in the posted article. There's no realistic expectation that someone can be successful at all of this all of the time, but the role requires making a credible effort. The work needs to get done and there are no candidates with perfect skills waiting in the wings.
- jghn 5y ago
  Exactly. I've been kicking around for about 20 years or so. This list captures many things I've found set great developers apart from the pack. With few exceptions [0], people who only bring amazing engineering skills will be held back without some ability in these areas. That said, this isn't the sort of thing people should see as a checklist. Rather they're skills you should keep in mind and always seek to improve upon regardless of where you're at. [0] The exceptions are generally people with deep expertise in domains where that's a rare attribute
  - throwawaaarrgh 5y ago
    You could also see it as a Peter Principle checklist. If you do all of those things all the time, someone is going to think that you're so great that they might promote you right out of software development and into management. So if you want to stay a developer, maybe try to leave a few boxes unchecked :-)
    - bcrosby95 5y ago
      That should be covered under non-senior-engineer: learn how to say "no" ;)
    - windowojji 5y ago
      > promote you right out of software development and into management At good companies, these two jobs run parallel, not one on top of the other. Management should be viewed as a sidegrade, not a promotion.
cdubzzz 5y ago
There is definitely a mix of product owner tasks in this list. I would say the following are either mixed responsibly or in some cases entirely on a PO: > How to influence another team to use your solution instead of writing their own > How to give up your baby, that project that you built into something great, so you can do something else > How to communicate project status to stakeholders > How to convince management that they need to invest in a non-trivial technical project > How to craft a project proposal, socialize it, and get buy-in to execute it > How to get information about what’s really happening (how to gossip, how to network) There is also PM work in there but that I would say hits a little closer to the senior engineer.
- crucialfelix 5y ago
  I think those refer to technical projects initiated by an engineer. In many cases I've also initiated product ideas that I then discuss around the company to get feedback and momentum with so that the PO will accept it into planning.
  - cdubzzz 5y ago
    Yeah and that’s why I added the caveat that these aren’t exclusive to a PO. And I’m sure there are differences at every org. I’m a senior at a small org and _before_ we had a PO I did do all that stuff. Now that we have a PO I only do that sort of thing internally with our team when we are planning and prioritizing our work for other groups. The farthest up I ever sell have to sell an idea is my own Director and I love it.
xxs 5y ago
This an opinion list of how to communicate (well) and get promoted. No idea why one feel failure about anything with regard to the list, itself.

sirmike_ 5y ago

Feel it if you must but even this list is woefully incomplete if we are to strike the cynic's position! Not everyone is going to encounter all these in one role. Not even in a whole career. A lot of these are super redundant in my opinion. If you boil them down I bet a lot of these would be mirrored in one living ones life in general. Some of them can be taught but so much more is earned by grit and experience. I am not pooping on this site at all ... just remember everything in the modern world is made by a human hand. Frail and limited and built on billions of failed attempts. Life is iterative and unpredictable. It is a journey after all. Cruel and wide, with beauty written large everywhere in plain site.

sirmike_ 5y ago
*sight

kec 5y ago

Senior/Principle/Staff/etc titles are typically less about raw competence or tenure and more about leadership. A senior will typically spend most of their time working on high level design and overall strategy for a project, with execution left to more junior engineers. Seniors should be technical enough to jump in if necessary and they should guide junior engineers as needed but execution is not the main focus of the role.

jpeloquin 5y ago

I think "senior engineer" is just a role with responsibilities that include the stuff in the posted article. There's no realistic expectation that someone can be successful at all of this all of the time, but the role requires making a credible effort. The work needs to get done and there are no candidates with perfect skills waiting in the wings.

jghn 5y ago
Exactly. I've been kicking around for about 20 years or so. This list captures many things I've found set great developers apart from the pack. With few exceptions [0], people who only bring amazing engineering skills will be held back without some ability in these areas. That said, this isn't the sort of thing people should see as a checklist. Rather they're skills you should keep in mind and always seek to improve upon regardless of where you're at. [0] The exceptions are generally people with deep expertise in domains where that's a rare attribute
- throwawaaarrgh 5y ago
  You could also see it as a Peter Principle checklist. If you do all of those things all the time, someone is going to think that you're so great that they might promote you right out of software development and into management. So if you want to stay a developer, maybe try to leave a few boxes unchecked :-)
  - bcrosby95 5y ago
    That should be covered under non-senior-engineer: learn how to say "no" ;)
  - windowojji 5y ago
    > promote you right out of software development and into management At good companies, these two jobs run parallel, not one on top of the other. Management should be viewed as a sidegrade, not a promotion.

cdubzzz 5y ago

There is definitely a mix of product owner tasks in this list. I would say the following are either mixed responsibly or in some cases entirely on a PO: > How to influence another team to use your solution instead of writing their own > How to give up your baby, that project that you built into something great, so you can do something else > How to communicate project status to stakeholders > How to convince management that they need to invest in a non-trivial technical project > How to craft a project proposal, socialize it, and get buy-in to execute it > How to get information about what’s really happening (how to gossip, how to network) There is also PM work in there but that I would say hits a little closer to the senior engineer.

crucialfelix 5y ago
I think those refer to technical projects initiated by an engineer. In many cases I've also initiated product ideas that I then discuss around the company to get feedback and momentum with so that the PO will accept it into planning.
- cdubzzz 5y ago
  Yeah and that’s why I added the caveat that these aren’t exclusive to a PO. And I’m sure there are differences at every org. I’m a senior at a small org and _before_ we had a PO I did do all that stuff. Now that we have a PO I only do that sort of thing internally with our team when we are planning and prioritizing our work for other groups. The farthest up I ever sell have to sell an idea is my own Director and I love it.

xxs 5y ago

This an opinion list of how to communicate (well) and get promoted. No idea why one feel failure about anything with regard to the list, itself.