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It’s probably reasonable for an organization to choose not to conflate the civil liberties they stand for with amendments. In an ideal world the people would ha

It’s probably reasonable for an organization to choose not to conflate the civil liberties they stand for with amendments. In an ideal world the people would happily eliminate or modify laws that do harm, and of the existing US civil liberties, the 2nd amendment is likely the most debatable on whether it is a net win for liberty.

gotoeleven 5y ago
The American Civil Liberties Approved by Left Wing Twitter Mobs Union has a nice ring to it.
vmception 5y ago
Even the most extreme proponents of the 2nd amendment have examples of it working The various police forces during the capital seige - in January, remember how that was this year - said they used less force because the participants were armed and knew they could shoot back Their whole thing is that they will make the state think twice, whereas the peaceful and unarmed protestors get knocked around with no recourse Without examples, its easy to think they are advocating for actually killing government officials with their guns in order to get their way, but after a year of examples I can at least say I have experienced competing and conflicting ideas in action
- Retric 5y ago
  The ACLU’s mission isn’t about defending the constitution, plenty of other organizations step up for that. Their scope includes all those liberties which don’t show up on the constitution which is a much larger issue. “Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as” Many people just have a problem with word except on that line and so many other places in society. As such the ACLU’s goal is to push for improvements not simply defend the current situation.
- drewrv 5y ago
  I don’t buy this argument. One of the reasons police are quicker to open fire on people here in the US is because so many people have guns. Countries with fewer guns have fewer armed police officers and fewer policemen shootings.
  - vmception 5y ago
    Yes, fire on individuals, not on groups. These are separate issues. All Americans experience a collective punishment from law enforcement because they might have "a" gun on them.
- javagram 5y ago
  > The various police forces during the capital seige - in January, remember how that was this year - said they used less force because the participants were armed and knew they could shoot back I think this is mostly inaccurate? The Jan 6 protestors/rioters mostly left their guns at home due to fear of D.C.‘s strict gun laws. Even the oathkeepers planned to keep their guns in Virginia and ferry them over by boat only once “called up as militia”. The Capitol police are used to dealing with protestors and demonstrators and have never opened fire on a crowd with live ammo before. The one time it did look like a rioter (Ashlii Babbit) was going to get too close to members of Congress they used their firearm without hesitation.
  - vmception 5y ago
    DC Metro Police were also there If I find the quotes again from officer(s) interviews I’ll link you
- TchoBeer 5y ago
  Oh wow second amendment rights make it more easy for right wing extremists to overthrow our democracy? Surely the bastion of personal liberty!
  - vmception 5y ago
    And also left wing extremists, secessionists, centrists, people afraid of 5G Americans have guns Right wingers showed up with them and then said it was left wingers, who do also own them
briandear 5y ago
Liberty is a result of the second amendment. The 2nd Amendment ensures there remains a 1st. Disarming a population is the first act of tyranny. Check the history books for countless examples. The Soviets, the Nazis, the Communist Chinese, and on and on — they all had gun control as a key early policy.

gotoeleven 5y ago

The American Civil Liberties Approved by Left Wing Twitter Mobs Union has a nice ring to it.

vmception 5y ago

Even the most extreme proponents of the 2nd amendment have examples of it working The various police forces during the capital seige - in January, remember how that was this year - said they used less force because the participants were armed and knew they could shoot back Their whole thing is that they will make the state think twice, whereas the peaceful and unarmed protestors get knocked around with no recourse Without examples, its easy to think they are advocating for actually killing government officials with their guns in order to get their way, but after a year of examples I can at least say I have experienced competing and conflicting ideas in action

Retric 5y ago
The ACLU’s mission isn’t about defending the constitution, plenty of other organizations step up for that. Their scope includes all those liberties which don’t show up on the constitution which is a much larger issue. “Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as” Many people just have a problem with word except on that line and so many other places in society. As such the ACLU’s goal is to push for improvements not simply defend the current situation.
drewrv 5y ago
I don’t buy this argument. One of the reasons police are quicker to open fire on people here in the US is because so many people have guns. Countries with fewer guns have fewer armed police officers and fewer policemen shootings.
- vmception 5y ago
  Yes, fire on individuals, not on groups. These are separate issues. All Americans experience a collective punishment from law enforcement because they might have "a" gun on them.
javagram 5y ago
> The various police forces during the capital seige - in January, remember how that was this year - said they used less force because the participants were armed and knew they could shoot back I think this is mostly inaccurate? The Jan 6 protestors/rioters mostly left their guns at home due to fear of D.C.‘s strict gun laws. Even the oathkeepers planned to keep their guns in Virginia and ferry them over by boat only once “called up as militia”. The Capitol police are used to dealing with protestors and demonstrators and have never opened fire on a crowd with live ammo before. The one time it did look like a rioter (Ashlii Babbit) was going to get too close to members of Congress they used their firearm without hesitation.
- vmception 5y ago
  DC Metro Police were also there If I find the quotes again from officer(s) interviews I’ll link you
TchoBeer 5y ago
Oh wow second amendment rights make it more easy for right wing extremists to overthrow our democracy? Surely the bastion of personal liberty!
- vmception 5y ago
  And also left wing extremists, secessionists, centrists, people afraid of 5G Americans have guns Right wingers showed up with them and then said it was left wingers, who do also own them

briandear 5y ago

Liberty is a result of the second amendment. The 2nd Amendment ensures there remains a 1st. Disarming a population is the first act of tyranny. Check the history books for countless examples. The Soviets, the Nazis, the Communist Chinese, and on and on — they all had gun control as a key early policy.