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I make electronic music. Last year I invested in learning promotion. I spent about $1500 and now I have about a thousand followers on Spotify. Every time I rele

I make electronic music. Last year I invested in learning promotion. I spent about $1500 and now I have about a thousand followers on Spotify. Every time I release a song, I get a couple hundred listens. I don't do it for the money. The return on a it is a meager. My 'day job' makes me pretty good money. But it got me thinking: what does it mean to me to have listeners? It's great when people 'like' my music, but in a lot of ways, it's just numbers on a screen. What difference would it make if I had 10,000 or 100,000 listeners instead of 1000? Maybe it would be cool if I were in a store and hear a song of mine playing on the radio or watching a movie and it was playing as a sound track. The validation I've felt from similar successes is great but it is fleeting. Ultimately, the most joy I get out of it is being able to sit down and create music that I myself enjoy and respect.

apples_oranges 5y ago
I think part of it is being part of a community. You know there are people out there who are like you. In the sense that they like your music, and this connects everyone into some sort of asynchronous musical happening. You communicate something to them with your music (and lyrics).
rgbrgb 5y ago
would love to check out your music and hear more of this story.
- insickness 5y ago
  I release music under Visions of Division. Spotify link: https://open.spotify.com/artist/0b836tZPLcWr1M0BTr6qhp?si=M_J72BSbSkyh0EJlwnDMrg https://open.spotify.com/artist/0b836tZPLcWr1M0BTr6qhp?si=M_... I've been making music on and off for about 25 years. Have worked with different vocalists and other musicians. Now I do most of the songwriting myself but have another songwriter I sometimes collaborate with. I do most of the production myself as well but I typically hire a session vocalist or other additional musicians such as a guitarist through soundbetter.com or airgigs.com. I'll also hire professional mixing/mastering for each song. I also am an amateur photographer/videographer. I make my own videos but have also hired other people to make some videos as well. The first video is mine: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCYMdaRwwvf8ToJSSU1sIAng https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCYMdaRwwvf8ToJSSU1sIAng It is amazing that now you can hire people online to do almost everything a professional record label can do--or do it yourself. Of course, paying a few hundred dollars for services like I do typically doesn't yield the same results as a record label investing $100,000 for it. But unlike decades past, there is no longer a wall out there preventing me from getting worldwide distribution and hiring professionals to assist in every way.
vmception 5y ago
I’ve “beat” most platforms. Most recently instagram. Once you actually know how to get followers, engagement, and likes, the value of that currency decreases. Sure the dopamine is the same and you still have the chance to gauge how one piece of media performs against another. But there is no difference or point unless you are aiming to sell the profile (which is a decently sized market if you werent aware).
- droopyEyelids 5y ago
  well, tell us a story of how to beat the platforms
  - vmception 5y ago
    buy a profile and rebrand it. that's it. okay that's not it. forget everything you think you know about instagram, especially anything about vanity, anything that bothers you about the pursuit of vanity or your assumptions about it. you'll also be re-assigning what you think you know about instagram follower growth systems. buying an instagram profile is more similar to a merger and acquisition deal, in the sense that you are actually buying all the direct messages (DMs) - the customer rolls. A popular profile does business through DMs (you also are buying the "og email account" to pass security measures, so if anyone emailed you get that too). They've done business with people that want to do promotions on their profile, business with entire networks of profile buyers and sellers. Buying a profile buys you that whole customer list. The customers are even the innocuous empty private accounts with 0 followers that are the point of contact for heavy traders. Things you may not have known existing. This is your way into a steady stream of unlisted accounts that are for sale. You can repeatedly just ask them what else they have. when you choose an account for rebranding, you are looking for something similar to what you will rebrand to with certain levels of engagement and reach, and ideally with similar demographics although it will already be heavily correlated. wealth and motivation can be rebranded to some playboy guy, women's fashion can be rebranded to baby stuff, rinse repeat. the general profile is targeting the whole world, so none of the "lets normalize this super progressive thing" matters at all. traditional gender roles are in vogue. congratulations you've skipped the rat race of growing a profile. all the apps and systems to grow a profile are more expensive and time consuming than just owning an already grown profile. you break even by doing promotions. promotions are people paying to be tagged in one of your posts for a few hours. then you delete or archive the post. or you do it on the story. now lets go back to the apps and systems that are targeted to people trying to "grow" instagram accounts. you can use them, but its only to offset the attrition. when you rebrand you lose followers when they notice they are following something they don't remember following and don't want to. your goal is to just slow down the unfollowers, the banned, the deactivated, by having new followers replace them. But not to actually "make numba go up". Now back to gen pop. the general population likes popular shiny things. I was just at a party yesterday where an adult woman was fawning over this "famous" person who "is really famous" and "has, like, 25k followers on instagram". This is a nearly perfect currency that doesn't actually get spent. "Oh my god, someone has an advantage with women I hate this let me find something wrong with it, aha! fraud!" nope. Notice that these are real followers, real engagement, real views, less or different work. Brands, companies, anyone wanting promotion or attention actually do offer things for free or pay. Worry about the people that are doing less effective things. But if you must be bothered, selling an account is against Instagram/Facebook's terms of service, so you have that going for you. The terms of service. I've been aware of this, from sporadic participation, for half a decade now. Brand accounts, influencer accounts, you name it, just when you think its oversaturated and nobody will give them time of day, another year goes by and it still is interesting to people and the trading networks are more refined. With multiple profiles you can also more easily grow your other profiles. Basically giving yourself free promos, or anyone you like. They are real human followers, after all.
riebschlager 5y ago
I think you nailed it in your last sentence. Hobbies are our chance to create without the baggage of external requirements or external validation. Being in that creative flow state is the best feeling. If someone else appreciates what you made, that's just the icing on an already tasty cake. I post my silly art projects on Instagram for 30 or 40 likes. Would I love more? Well, yeah. Endorphins and all that. But I can't stop making this stuff because I just really, really enjoy the moments of making it.
- toto444 5y ago
  30 or 40 likes is not nothing. I think your motivation would be lower if no one at all cared about what you do despite you sharing it.
mjr00 5y ago
I'm in the same boat, making electronic music as a hobby. I don't think there's anything wrong with wanting fans of your music, even if you have a day job and have no desire to make it a career. As fun as the creative process is, if you're making (good) music there will probably be things about it that you don't enjoy, whether that's sound design, tweaking effects chains to get something to sound right, banging your head trying to figure out why your track doesn't sound like your reference, mixing, mastering, etc. If you're putting in that effort, it is nice to see some validation, even if it's just in the form of "likes." Promotion is a different story, though... I don't think it makes sense to throw real money (aka more than like $20 on Submithub/Labelradar, which I consider more paid feedback than promotion) for a release unless you're planning to get an actual return on investment there. At which point it crosses the line into "hustle," for me.
Apocryphon 5y ago
Maybe when people start remixing your tracks. When your creative work spawns more creativity, then you've truly effected change into the world.
whall6 5y ago
What’s your Spotify?
DizzyDoo 5y ago
What about creating music so that the people who enjoy it will enjoy it? I don't create music but I appreciate the bands and songwriters that make the stuff I really like. That's not about self-validation for you, the author, that's about making someone else's life a little better.

apples_oranges 5y ago

I think part of it is being part of a community. You know there are people out there who are like you. In the sense that they like your music, and this connects everyone into some sort of asynchronous musical happening. You communicate something to them with your music (and lyrics).

rgbrgb 5y ago

would love to check out your music and hear more of this story.

insickness 5y ago
I release music under Visions of Division. Spotify link: https://open.spotify.com/artist/0b836tZPLcWr1M0BTr6qhp?si=M_J72BSbSkyh0EJlwnDMrg https://open.spotify.com/artist/0b836tZPLcWr1M0BTr6qhp?si=M_... I've been making music on and off for about 25 years. Have worked with different vocalists and other musicians. Now I do most of the songwriting myself but have another songwriter I sometimes collaborate with. I do most of the production myself as well but I typically hire a session vocalist or other additional musicians such as a guitarist through soundbetter.com or airgigs.com. I'll also hire professional mixing/mastering for each song. I also am an amateur photographer/videographer. I make my own videos but have also hired other people to make some videos as well. The first video is mine: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCYMdaRwwvf8ToJSSU1sIAng https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCYMdaRwwvf8ToJSSU1sIAng It is amazing that now you can hire people online to do almost everything a professional record label can do--or do it yourself. Of course, paying a few hundred dollars for services like I do typically doesn't yield the same results as a record label investing $100,000 for it. But unlike decades past, there is no longer a wall out there preventing me from getting worldwide distribution and hiring professionals to assist in every way.

vmception 5y ago

I’ve “beat” most platforms. Most recently instagram. Once you actually know how to get followers, engagement, and likes, the value of that currency decreases. Sure the dopamine is the same and you still have the chance to gauge how one piece of media performs against another. But there is no difference or point unless you are aiming to sell the profile (which is a decently sized market if you werent aware).

droopyEyelids 5y ago
well, tell us a story of how to beat the platforms
- vmception 5y ago
  buy a profile and rebrand it. that's it. okay that's not it. forget everything you think you know about instagram, especially anything about vanity, anything that bothers you about the pursuit of vanity or your assumptions about it. you'll also be re-assigning what you think you know about instagram follower growth systems. buying an instagram profile is more similar to a merger and acquisition deal, in the sense that you are actually buying all the direct messages (DMs) - the customer rolls. A popular profile does business through DMs (you also are buying the "og email account" to pass security measures, so if anyone emailed you get that too). They've done business with people that want to do promotions on their profile, business with entire networks of profile buyers and sellers. Buying a profile buys you that whole customer list. The customers are even the innocuous empty private accounts with 0 followers that are the point of contact for heavy traders. Things you may not have known existing. This is your way into a steady stream of unlisted accounts that are for sale. You can repeatedly just ask them what else they have. when you choose an account for rebranding, you are looking for something similar to what you will rebrand to with certain levels of engagement and reach, and ideally with similar demographics although it will already be heavily correlated. wealth and motivation can be rebranded to some playboy guy, women's fashion can be rebranded to baby stuff, rinse repeat. the general profile is targeting the whole world, so none of the "lets normalize this super progressive thing" matters at all. traditional gender roles are in vogue. congratulations you've skipped the rat race of growing a profile. all the apps and systems to grow a profile are more expensive and time consuming than just owning an already grown profile. you break even by doing promotions. promotions are people paying to be tagged in one of your posts for a few hours. then you delete or archive the post. or you do it on the story. now lets go back to the apps and systems that are targeted to people trying to "grow" instagram accounts. you can use them, but its only to offset the attrition. when you rebrand you lose followers when they notice they are following something they don't remember following and don't want to. your goal is to just slow down the unfollowers, the banned, the deactivated, by having new followers replace them. But not to actually "make numba go up". Now back to gen pop. the general population likes popular shiny things. I was just at a party yesterday where an adult woman was fawning over this "famous" person who "is really famous" and "has, like, 25k followers on instagram". This is a nearly perfect currency that doesn't actually get spent. "Oh my god, someone has an advantage with women I hate this let me find something wrong with it, aha! fraud!" nope. Notice that these are real followers, real engagement, real views, less or different work. Brands, companies, anyone wanting promotion or attention actually do offer things for free or pay. Worry about the people that are doing less effective things. But if you must be bothered, selling an account is against Instagram/Facebook's terms of service, so you have that going for you. The terms of service. I've been aware of this, from sporadic participation, for half a decade now. Brand accounts, influencer accounts, you name it, just when you think its oversaturated and nobody will give them time of day, another year goes by and it still is interesting to people and the trading networks are more refined. With multiple profiles you can also more easily grow your other profiles. Basically giving yourself free promos, or anyone you like. They are real human followers, after all.

riebschlager 5y ago

I think you nailed it in your last sentence. Hobbies are our chance to create without the baggage of external requirements or external validation. Being in that creative flow state is the best feeling. If someone else appreciates what you made, that's just the icing on an already tasty cake. I post my silly art projects on Instagram for 30 or 40 likes. Would I love more? Well, yeah. Endorphins and all that. But I can't stop making this stuff because I just really, really enjoy the moments of making it.

toto444 5y ago
30 or 40 likes is not nothing. I think your motivation would be lower if no one at all cared about what you do despite you sharing it.

mjr00 5y ago

I'm in the same boat, making electronic music as a hobby. I don't think there's anything wrong with wanting fans of your music, even if you have a day job and have no desire to make it a career. As fun as the creative process is, if you're making (good) music there will probably be things about it that you don't enjoy, whether that's sound design, tweaking effects chains to get something to sound right, banging your head trying to figure out why your track doesn't sound like your reference, mixing, mastering, etc. If you're putting in that effort, it is nice to see some validation, even if it's just in the form of "likes." Promotion is a different story, though... I don't think it makes sense to throw real money (aka more than like $20 on Submithub/Labelradar, which I consider more paid feedback than promotion) for a release unless you're planning to get an actual return on investment there. At which point it crosses the line into "hustle," for me.

Apocryphon 5y ago

Maybe when people start remixing your tracks. When your creative work spawns more creativity, then you've truly effected change into the world.

whall6 5y ago

What’s your Spotify?

DizzyDoo 5y ago

What about creating music so that the people who enjoy it will enjoy it? I don't create music but I appreciate the bands and songwriters that make the stuff I really like. That's not about self-validation for you, the author, that's about making someone else's life a little better.