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Would the number of scams in the top 1000 be higher than 2% if the App Store was not tightly controlled? It doesn't follow that, since some bad things have got

Would the number of scams in the top 1000 be higher than 2% if the App Store was not tightly controlled? It doesn't follow that, since some bad things have gotten past the gatekeeper, we should get rid of the gatekeeper.

Toutouxc 5y ago
The number of scams and fakes on the Google Play store is off the charts.
- rawtxapp 5y ago
  Do you have any numbers to back up that claim?
  - Toutouxc 5y ago
    Nope, I don't even think such number exists, it's just my impression of the amount of "why the fuck would anyone even publish this" apps out there.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
amaBasics 5y ago
That’s unclear. A couple of things to consider, both of which are helping scammers currently: - A lot of users let their guard down because they blindly trust Apple’s marketing, and scammers take advantage of that. - The fake ratings and reviews are making this even worse by leading people to believe other people have found some of these scams valuable. I can see how a more trustworthy ratings system and a more honest marketing of the App Store for what it really is, could lead to fewer scams, even if Apple doesn’t control the App Review process so tightly - or doesn’t control it all.
- granzymes 5y ago
  > A lot of users let their guard down because they blindly trust Apple’s marketing, and scammers take advantage of that. This is the "a lot of scammers are better than a few sophisticated scammers" argument, which I disagree with. Users themselves have varying levels of sophistication (unsophisticated scams work just fine on some people), and there are other mechanisms like chargebacks which can unwind damage after the fact. > The fake ratings and reviews are making this even worse by leading people to believe other people have found some of these scams valuable. I have no insight into how well Apple is doing combating fake reviews, but no anti-abuse system is perfect. There is the same question here: would things be worse if Apple didn't police reviews at all. The App Store is broken but it is the least broken of the app stores.
  - amaBasics 5y ago
    Not only is the App Store broken, Apple themselves seem to be intentionally breaking it at times. From the article: > Apple used to have a button, just under the ratings and reviews section in the App Store, that said “report a problem,” which allowed users to report inappropriate apps. Based on discussions among Apple customers on Apple’s own website, the feature was removed some time around 2016. Why would they remove the ability for people to easily report apps?
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
disabled 5y ago
It's called government regulation, with true actionable penalties for not enforcing legal mandates. The laws should be enforceable even for open-source type App Stores, and operations that cannot follow the laws should not be available in those countries. Countries must have control over their territories, regardless of whether it is in the physical or virtual world. If you "created" the equivalent in real life, in a 3D physical, brick-and-mortar sense, the law would generally be strictly enforced, and you would be able to get away with far less. That is, unless you are FAANG, which lobbies the US government--and other governments around the world for laws that give them an extremely huge "competitive advantage" over startups and mom-and-pop type establishments, along with allowing them to be "in compliance" but not adhering to the actual "spirit of the law". The actual spirit of the law is what the purpose of the law is in the first place. It is about affording people inherent rights. The European Union has halfway decent laws on paper at best, that are extremely poorly enforced. Also, FAANG always finds a way to evade a penalty, anywhere in the world. The EU needs to step up its game, and I think they will, but of course, it will never be quite enough.
- granzymes 5y ago
  Could you clarify what kinds of regulations you would like to see? I can't tell what your proposal is from this comment.
cageface 5y ago
Apple asks us to relinquish some of our most essential freedoms in exchange for the promise of safety. If they’re not providing that safety it’s a rotten bargain.
- smoldesu 5y ago
  I'd argue that if they can't prove the safety, you're getting ripped off. Apple can point their finger at every third party under the sun, but at the end of the day PRISM and the CCP has it's respective index fingers on their iCloud servers, quietly (and happily) siphoning information from a "completely secure" (unaudited) system.
  - catlifeonmars 5y ago
    Interesting claim. Source?

Toutouxc 5y ago

The number of scams and fakes on the Google Play store is off the charts.

rawtxapp 5y ago
Do you have any numbers to back up that claim?
- Toutouxc 5y ago
  Nope, I don't even think such number exists, it's just my impression of the amount of "why the fuck would anyone even publish this" apps out there.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

amaBasics 5y ago

That’s unclear. A couple of things to consider, both of which are helping scammers currently: - A lot of users let their guard down because they blindly trust Apple’s marketing, and scammers take advantage of that. - The fake ratings and reviews are making this even worse by leading people to believe other people have found some of these scams valuable. I can see how a more trustworthy ratings system and a more honest marketing of the App Store for what it really is, could lead to fewer scams, even if Apple doesn’t control the App Review process so tightly - or doesn’t control it all.

granzymes 5y ago
> A lot of users let their guard down because they blindly trust Apple’s marketing, and scammers take advantage of that. This is the "a lot of scammers are better than a few sophisticated scammers" argument, which I disagree with. Users themselves have varying levels of sophistication (unsophisticated scams work just fine on some people), and there are other mechanisms like chargebacks which can unwind damage after the fact. > The fake ratings and reviews are making this even worse by leading people to believe other people have found some of these scams valuable. I have no insight into how well Apple is doing combating fake reviews, but no anti-abuse system is perfect. There is the same question here: would things be worse if Apple didn't police reviews at all. The App Store is broken but it is the least broken of the app stores.
- amaBasics 5y ago
  Not only is the App Store broken, Apple themselves seem to be intentionally breaking it at times. From the article: > Apple used to have a button, just under the ratings and reviews section in the App Store, that said “report a problem,” which allowed users to report inappropriate apps. Based on discussions among Apple customers on Apple’s own website, the feature was removed some time around 2016. Why would they remove the ability for people to easily report apps?
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]

disabled 5y ago

It's called government regulation, with true actionable penalties for not enforcing legal mandates. The laws should be enforceable even for open-source type App Stores, and operations that cannot follow the laws should not be available in those countries. Countries must have control over their territories, regardless of whether it is in the physical or virtual world. If you "created" the equivalent in real life, in a 3D physical, brick-and-mortar sense, the law would generally be strictly enforced, and you would be able to get away with far less. That is, unless you are FAANG, which lobbies the US government--and other governments around the world for laws that give them an extremely huge "competitive advantage" over startups and mom-and-pop type establishments, along with allowing them to be "in compliance" but not adhering to the actual "spirit of the law". The actual spirit of the law is what the purpose of the law is in the first place. It is about affording people inherent rights. The European Union has halfway decent laws on paper at best, that are extremely poorly enforced. Also, FAANG always finds a way to evade a penalty, anywhere in the world. The EU needs to step up its game, and I think they will, but of course, it will never be quite enough.

granzymes 5y ago
Could you clarify what kinds of regulations you would like to see? I can't tell what your proposal is from this comment.

cageface 5y ago

Apple asks us to relinquish some of our most essential freedoms in exchange for the promise of safety. If they’re not providing that safety it’s a rotten bargain.

smoldesu 5y ago
I'd argue that if they can't prove the safety, you're getting ripped off. Apple can point their finger at every third party under the sun, but at the end of the day PRISM and the CCP has it's respective index fingers on their iCloud servers, quietly (and happily) siphoning information from a "completely secure" (unaudited) system.
- catlifeonmars 5y ago
  Interesting claim. Source?