3 ms·

Are there any stats that left turns are/how dangerous? Here most (at least the majority of media reports is about) cyclist die when a truck turns right.

bullfightonmars 5y ago
The biggest problem with right turns are: 1. Free rights a uncontrolled right turns that don’t protect crossing cyclists and pedestrians through time based segregation. 2. No physical/grade segregation. Cyclists become invisible in blind spots during right turns because intersections are terribly designed to support anything other than cars. A well designed intersection puts cyclists in front of cars where they are visible at all times, instead of in a blind spot. https://bicycledutch.wordpress.com/2018/02/20/a-common-urban-intersection-in-the-netherlands/ https://bicycledutch.wordpress.com/2018/02/20/a-common-urban...
- dragonmost 5y ago
  I can't see this being a solution in places with lots of snow and it also takes a lot more space than the actual road.
- andi999 5y ago
  This looks good. Although I do not see how this can be done without tearing down 10% of a city.
MintsJohn 5y ago
That was my thought as well, when driving in city like environments, its always the cyclists on the right I need to be careful about, traffic I have to cross on the left is clearly visible, the cyclists on the right hide in a blind spot.
deathanatos 5y ago
Those are almost certainly people making what I call "right hand turns from not the rightmost lanes", which is, IMO, the single most dangerous traffic violation a biker can encounter. It happens often, it's hard to avoid, and the consequences are bad¹. My jurisdiction (and most I have encountered) require a right-turning vehicle to merge first into the bike lane, if there is a bike lane to the right. (And no further car lanes. Some intersections will shunt right turning vehicles across the bike lane, first, into a turning lane, and then turn at the intersection.) My "closest call" was here: [1] I was going southbound through that intersection on a fresh green when a vehicle right turned from the left turning lane (i.e. he was also initially headed south bound). Absolutely crazy maneuver. I was forced into the right there (because otherwise, we were going to collide) and was just barely able to make it — I could feel the traction in my back tire was just barely holding onto the road the whole way through, since I was also braking like hell. Driver was just like "uh, oops?" I'll usually watch the lane just left to me for drivers whose movement indicates some inclination of thinking about right turning (again, from the wrong lane). I don't know if people worry about blocking bikers or what. Like, if you're in my lane to make a right, and you're signalling that, I prefer that, because you're not going to pop into my lane & try to kill me. I'll wait behind you while you make the right. (Or merge around you on the left, if I can safely do so.) Or at the very least… if you're going to make an illegal right, please, signal. [1]: https://goo.gl/maps/U2smgkRmagmcwsBAA https://goo.gl/maps/U2smgkRmagmcwsBAA ¹way worse than things that sound worse: car driving the wrong way — which itself happens way more often than it really should — it's much "better": I can see it coming. Honestly, as a cyclist I feel like I'm the only person out there who took a course on how to drive a car.

bullfightonmars 5y ago

The biggest problem with right turns are: 1. Free rights a uncontrolled right turns that don’t protect crossing cyclists and pedestrians through time based segregation. 2. No physical/grade segregation. Cyclists become invisible in blind spots during right turns because intersections are terribly designed to support anything other than cars. A well designed intersection puts cyclists in front of cars where they are visible at all times, instead of in a blind spot. https://bicycledutch.wordpress.com/2018/02/20/a-common-urban-intersection-in-the-netherlands/ https://bicycledutch.wordpress.com/2018/02/20/a-common-urban...

dragonmost 5y ago
I can't see this being a solution in places with lots of snow and it also takes a lot more space than the actual road.
andi999 5y ago
This looks good. Although I do not see how this can be done without tearing down 10% of a city.

MintsJohn 5y ago

That was my thought as well, when driving in city like environments, its always the cyclists on the right I need to be careful about, traffic I have to cross on the left is clearly visible, the cyclists on the right hide in a blind spot.

deathanatos 5y ago

Those are almost certainly people making what I call "right hand turns from not the rightmost lanes", which is, IMO, the single most dangerous traffic violation a biker can encounter. It happens often, it's hard to avoid, and the consequences are bad¹. My jurisdiction (and most I have encountered) require a right-turning vehicle to merge first into the bike lane, if there is a bike lane to the right. (And no further car lanes. Some intersections will shunt right turning vehicles across the bike lane, first, into a turning lane, and then turn at the intersection.) My "closest call" was here: [1] I was going southbound through that intersection on a fresh green when a vehicle right turned from the left turning lane (i.e. he was also initially headed south bound). Absolutely crazy maneuver. I was forced into the right there (because otherwise, we were going to collide) and was just barely able to make it — I could feel the traction in my back tire was just barely holding onto the road the whole way through, since I was also braking like hell. Driver was just like "uh, oops?" I'll usually watch the lane just left to me for drivers whose movement indicates some inclination of thinking about right turning (again, from the wrong lane). I don't know if people worry about blocking bikers or what. Like, if you're in my lane to make a right, and you're signalling that, I prefer that, because you're not going to pop into my lane & try to kill me. I'll wait behind you while you make the right. (Or merge around you on the left, if I can safely do so.) Or at the very least… if you're going to make an illegal right, please, signal. [1]: https://goo.gl/maps/U2smgkRmagmcwsBAA https://goo.gl/maps/U2smgkRmagmcwsBAA ¹way worse than things that sound worse: car driving the wrong way — which itself happens way more often than it really should — it's much "better": I can see it coming. Honestly, as a cyclist I feel like I'm the only person out there who took a course on how to drive a car.