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I’m fairly certain I’ve commented about this on HN before but when I went to Antarctica (via ship from Argentina) in 2018 we saw tons of these vessels because t

I’m fairly certain I’ve commented about this on HN before but when I went to Antarctica (via ship from Argentina) in 2018 we saw tons of these vessels because the ships fishing for squid use huge bright lights to attract them at night. They looked like UFOs on the horizon. It was a really strange sight. It was definitely well-known amongst the scientists on the ship that the operations were illegal. I know they made an effort to report as many as they could but my impression was that officials were overwhelmed by complaints and the illegal ships would work together to avoid detection/quickly move to international water so, since it was a losing battle, the government didn’t put forth too much effort. Whether that’s the real reason nothing is done or just the good reason used to justify their inaction is anyone’s guess. I will say there were a shocking number of ships that I could see and I wouldn’t be surprised if they outnumbered the Argentinian navy.

galangalalgol 5y ago
It seems they outnumber the Argentinian fishing fleet 4 to 1, just counting the Chinese vessels which make up only 66% of the total intruders. So probably they outnumber the navy by quite a bit more. Impounding all these vessels would probably not make economic sense. They cant utilize that many vehicles and the people that might buy them would be the people they took them from. They would have to escort each one back to harbor and what do they do with the sailors? Feed and house them for free? Sinking these vessels with all hands with no warning would be the most effective way to handle it, no time wasted escorting and the impact psychologically would be outsized to the vessels sunk. Of course, that would gain them a great deal of negative publicity.
- yumraj 5y ago
  > Of course, that would gain them a great deal of negative publicity. Negative publicity where? I’m sure within Argentina this would be very popular and if China protests it’ll have to own up that these illegal boats are coming from there, which it may not want to do.
  - galangalalgol 5y ago
    That is a good point. The EU and the US likely would condemn it on humanitarian grounds, but Argentina may not have enough trade with them to care.
- Tams80 5y ago
  Sinking a few and then maintaining that threat is likely the only way (as in, if they come back, sink a few more). Obviously the crews should be taken off first, then returned to land and then deported as soon as possible. There's not much point in punishing them any further.
  - galangalalgol 5y ago
    If you are only doing a few, might as well take the boats and use them. There are so many I was thinking you'd need to sink a couple hundred. In which case saving the fishermen is prohibitively expensive.
- nonesuchluck 5y ago
  Not without warning, no. You wouldn't have to learn much Chinese to announce "we're scuttling this ship in 2 minutes. If you wish to live, you may board this freely provided inflatable." Their other boats will take them home. Probably have to toss over some of their illegal catch to make room, though.
- borroka 5y ago
  Since we are talking about Chinese ships, it is useful to remember the words of those who have led the party for a long time: "strike one to educate a hundred." Although, when you are as dependent as Argentina is on other countries, including China, to survive, there are few opportunities to educate others.
bromuro 5y ago
So a genuine question - why do these vessel need to stay at these borders? isn’t there enough fish in international waters?
- geoka9 5y ago
  Not an expert, but maybe because there's more fish in coastal (shallow) waters?

galangalalgol 5y ago

It seems they outnumber the Argentinian fishing fleet 4 to 1, just counting the Chinese vessels which make up only 66% of the total intruders. So probably they outnumber the navy by quite a bit more. Impounding all these vessels would probably not make economic sense. They cant utilize that many vehicles and the people that might buy them would be the people they took them from. They would have to escort each one back to harbor and what do they do with the sailors? Feed and house them for free? Sinking these vessels with all hands with no warning would be the most effective way to handle it, no time wasted escorting and the impact psychologically would be outsized to the vessels sunk. Of course, that would gain them a great deal of negative publicity.

yumraj 5y ago
> Of course, that would gain them a great deal of negative publicity. Negative publicity where? I’m sure within Argentina this would be very popular and if China protests it’ll have to own up that these illegal boats are coming from there, which it may not want to do.
- galangalalgol 5y ago
  That is a good point. The EU and the US likely would condemn it on humanitarian grounds, but Argentina may not have enough trade with them to care.
Tams80 5y ago
Sinking a few and then maintaining that threat is likely the only way (as in, if they come back, sink a few more). Obviously the crews should be taken off first, then returned to land and then deported as soon as possible. There's not much point in punishing them any further.
- galangalalgol 5y ago
  If you are only doing a few, might as well take the boats and use them. There are so many I was thinking you'd need to sink a couple hundred. In which case saving the fishermen is prohibitively expensive.
nonesuchluck 5y ago
Not without warning, no. You wouldn't have to learn much Chinese to announce "we're scuttling this ship in 2 minutes. If you wish to live, you may board this freely provided inflatable." Their other boats will take them home. Probably have to toss over some of their illegal catch to make room, though.
borroka 5y ago
Since we are talking about Chinese ships, it is useful to remember the words of those who have led the party for a long time: "strike one to educate a hundred." Although, when you are as dependent as Argentina is on other countries, including China, to survive, there are few opportunities to educate others.

bromuro 5y ago

So a genuine question - why do these vessel need to stay at these borders? isn’t there enough fish in international waters?

geoka9 5y ago
Not an expert, but maybe because there's more fish in coastal (shallow) waters?