5 ms·

A lot of this “circumstantial evidence” was and is game-of-telephone nonsense. Many mix together two completely different institutions (the Wuhan Center for Dis

A lot of this “circumstantial evidence” was and is game-of-telephone nonsense. Many mix together two completely different institutions (the Wuhan Center for Disease Control and the Wuhan Institute of Virology) which are several kilometres apart, for example. (Edit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ab-r0capbzk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ab-r0capbzk is a great look at said game of telephone.)

dimgl 5y ago
I’m not sure this is a valid counterargument. The intent is clear when someone says “it likely leaked from the lab in Wuhan”… I’m surprised how pedantic everything has gotten.
btmorex 5y ago
It's actually this exact attitude that kept it out of the media. I'm curious: what is your goal? Everyone can see the glaringly obvious circumstantial evidence that it was a lab leak. At this point, comments like your's just look ridiculous.
- LudwigNagasena 5y ago
  Oh, so vulnerable and fragile media decided to spin a ridiculous narrative because of stupid comments on the internet? Maybe the media should grow up and stop acting like a stereotypical 13 year old girl.
  - btmorex 5y ago
    No, it's an attitude of haughty dismissal, which the media has a real problem with too.
    - LudwigNagasena 5y ago
      Yeah, it seems like a real problem when the media can’t even clear the bar for internet comments.
jonathanstrange 5y ago
To be honest, the "evidence" I've seen so far boils down to stating that a virology lab was nearby the first outbreak so sure it must have come from that lab and couldn't have come from a wet market or elsewhere. In other words, evidence is confused with plausible storytelling, in incredibly common mistake nowadays. What's mildly infuriating me about this is that the people who push the lab escape hypothesis seem to have political motivations, but the wet market origin hypothesis is much worse for China. Although they have officially prohibited many of the practices and animal abuse that make it easier for viruses to jump to humans from other hosts, these practices remain widespread. It's much easier to secure virology labs than tens of thousands of semi-legal and illegal wet markets.
- btmorex 5y ago
  If that's the only evidence you've seen so far, you're not looking very hard.
- TazeTSchnitzel 5y ago
  There's certainly an argument that it's all the fault of the Great Leap Forward.
refenestrator 5y ago
The fascinating part is everyone did an about face on it overnight after the WSJ article. We went from Facebook banning mention of the theory to everyone being certain it's right on the basis of "national security flack says someone who works at the lab was sick, during flu season".
- btmorex 5y ago
  It's almost like the media is taking cues from the Biden administration.
  - refenestrator 5y ago
    Yes, but this is more the trans-administration national security blob than Biden people in particular. The WSJ author had brought us other CIA-approved gems about WMDs in Iraq once upon a time. You might be onto something with garden-variety liberals feeling 'free' to try and blame China now that Trump's out of sight, though.
    - jpeloquin 5y ago
      > The WSJ author had brought us other CIA-approved gems about WMDs in Iraq once upon a time. In case other people besides myself were confused, we're apparently talking about Michael Gordon, and this WSJ article [0], not this one [1]. Michael Gordon also wrote [2], which reported on the Bush administration's claims that Iraq was developing nuclear weapons. [0] https://www.wsj.com/articles/intelligence-on-sick-staff-at-wuhan-lab-fuels-debate-on-covid-19-origin-11621796228 https://www.wsj.com/articles/intelligence-on-sick-staff-at-w... [1] https://www.wsj.com/articles/wuhan-lab-leak-question-chinese-mine-covid-pandemic-11621871125 https://www.wsj.com/articles/wuhan-lab-leak-question-chinese... [2] https://www.nytimes.com/2002/09/08/world/threats-responses-iraqis-us-says-hussein-intensifies-quest-for-bomb-parts.html https://www.nytimes.com/2002/09/08/world/threats-responses-i...

dimgl 5y ago

I’m not sure this is a valid counterargument. The intent is clear when someone says “it likely leaked from the lab in Wuhan”… I’m surprised how pedantic everything has gotten.

btmorex 5y ago

It's actually this exact attitude that kept it out of the media. I'm curious: what is your goal? Everyone can see the glaringly obvious circumstantial evidence that it was a lab leak. At this point, comments like your's just look ridiculous.

LudwigNagasena 5y ago
Oh, so vulnerable and fragile media decided to spin a ridiculous narrative because of stupid comments on the internet? Maybe the media should grow up and stop acting like a stereotypical 13 year old girl.
- btmorex 5y ago
  No, it's an attitude of haughty dismissal, which the media has a real problem with too.
  - LudwigNagasena 5y ago
    Yeah, it seems like a real problem when the media can’t even clear the bar for internet comments.

jonathanstrange 5y ago

To be honest, the "evidence" I've seen so far boils down to stating that a virology lab was nearby the first outbreak so sure it must have come from that lab and couldn't have come from a wet market or elsewhere. In other words, evidence is confused with plausible storytelling, in incredibly common mistake nowadays. What's mildly infuriating me about this is that the people who push the lab escape hypothesis seem to have political motivations, but the wet market origin hypothesis is much worse for China. Although they have officially prohibited many of the practices and animal abuse that make it easier for viruses to jump to humans from other hosts, these practices remain widespread. It's much easier to secure virology labs than tens of thousands of semi-legal and illegal wet markets.

btmorex 5y ago
If that's the only evidence you've seen so far, you're not looking very hard.
TazeTSchnitzel 5y ago
There's certainly an argument that it's all the fault of the Great Leap Forward.

refenestrator 5y ago

The fascinating part is everyone did an about face on it overnight after the WSJ article. We went from Facebook banning mention of the theory to everyone being certain it's right on the basis of "national security flack says someone who works at the lab was sick, during flu season".

btmorex 5y ago
It's almost like the media is taking cues from the Biden administration.
- refenestrator 5y ago
  Yes, but this is more the trans-administration national security blob than Biden people in particular. The WSJ author had brought us other CIA-approved gems about WMDs in Iraq once upon a time. You might be onto something with garden-variety liberals feeling 'free' to try and blame China now that Trump's out of sight, though.
  - jpeloquin 5y ago
    > The WSJ author had brought us other CIA-approved gems about WMDs in Iraq once upon a time. In case other people besides myself were confused, we're apparently talking about Michael Gordon, and this WSJ article [0], not this one [1]. Michael Gordon also wrote [2], which reported on the Bush administration's claims that Iraq was developing nuclear weapons. [0] https://www.wsj.com/articles/intelligence-on-sick-staff-at-wuhan-lab-fuels-debate-on-covid-19-origin-11621796228 https://www.wsj.com/articles/intelligence-on-sick-staff-at-w... [1] https://www.wsj.com/articles/wuhan-lab-leak-question-chinese-mine-covid-pandemic-11621871125 https://www.wsj.com/articles/wuhan-lab-leak-question-chinese... [2] https://www.nytimes.com/2002/09/08/world/threats-responses-iraqis-us-says-hussein-intensifies-quest-for-bomb-parts.html https://www.nytimes.com/2002/09/08/world/threats-responses-i...