5 ms·

Please tell us how exactly the candidate insulted you!

lmilcin 5y ago
Couple of months ago I got a candidate that, if you just looked at his CV, was well overqualified for the position. We were looking for a senior Java dev, we got a guy who had two degrees, 25 years of experience, and started no less than 3 companies. He also never sticked to anything for more than 2 years. The insults started with his first sentence, before he or we even got a chance to greet each other. We had some conferencing issues, the company just changed conferencing technology. In the previous any person could start the meeting but in the new one only the person who set up the meeting could start it. So there was some commotion to change the room. When we joined (about 4-5 minutes after planned start) he said something to the effect that we must be new to this interviewing thing. Nevermind, I continue the interview. I ask him why he wants to work as a developer, given so much experience. He said he hasn't been programming a lot recently and wants to "dirty his hands" again. Hmm... So we go to the technical part where he started manufacturing some false answers and after I pointed out what he says is factually incorrect he decided to critique the difficulty of questions he was getting. I explained that we give same questions to all candidates for the position. I reminded I said at the start that candidates are not expected to know answers to all questions and that it is perfectly fine to tell us and to skip to the next question. I sometimes tell the candidates (jokingly) that I give 5 points for telling me he doesn't know the answer. Though I did not say this in this case. It only got downhill from there after couple more questions. After he gave another nonsense answer I did not say anything but he looked at me and said "WHAT NOW!" And then started tirade that I am not qualified to interview him and can we maybe set up an interview directly with my manager.
- solarengineer 5y ago
  At my employer, we deliberately have a junior person interview senior candidates. It helps us understand how stuck the candidate is about their seniority, whether they can explain something to an interviewer who clearly doesn't have the same exposure as the candidate.
  - lmilcin 5y ago
    This could be fun but there are just too many reasons not to do it. One is that you need to understand the technical questions perfectly so that you can ask deep probing questions, spot when candidate tries to wing it, etc. All the while evaluating various aspects of the answers and trying to figure out if you are getting all different aspects you need. After all, the best way too interview is to have a discussion with the candidate. If you just have a list of closed questions you could give him a test to fill out. You also need to be quite self aware of your own limitations and be able to distinguish between objective and your own preconceptions. As an example, I may like strongly typed languages and the candidate may have other preference. You need to be able to recognize that this is only your preference and try to objectively evaluate regardless of this. Otherwise you run the risk of hiring people that are exactly like you which is interviewing mistake #1.
    - no-s 5y ago
      Often the “leetcode” interview gets tedious. Im not a demon coder, I just seek local minima and reuse things. We stand on the shoulders of giants. Then I imagine what Aphyr would do and start giggling. It’s often downhill from there. "You have, in fact, heard this one before. In your browser, search for “fizzbuzz solution”, and pick the first link that looks promising. Copy and paste. You are a real engineer.” [1] [1] https://aphyr.com/posts/353-rewriting-the-technical-interview https://aphyr.com/posts/353-rewriting-the-technical-intervie...
      - lmilcin 5y ago
        First, you would be surprised how many candidates can't do something like fizzbuzz correctly. Second, if I ask you coding question I am not going after your existing knowledge but rather about how you deal with problems to which you don't know the solution for. After all that is what development is -- building something without necessarily knowing the solution when you start. Third, I don't care how good coder you are (well, I do a little). What I do care when I ask you coding question is that you can think logically, ask right questions, work with me to find a solution to the problem and also that you can use the tools that are at your disposal. Development is a lot of abilities and if the only thing you know is how to write more code then that is how you are going to approach every problem. As they say, if the only thing you have is a hammer... Most corporate software is extremely simple (or at least it should be). Writing REST API to run couple of agreed rules on objects in a database, call an external service or send a message over network is not a pinnacle of technical achievement. Arriving at the right solution in a large and complex organization, with many forces around you, people trying to overcomplicate your solution, stakeholders trying to drive your design or speed up development because refactoring is for pussies, on the other hand, is. Now, I interview only senior engineers and up. I expect senior engineers to be able to arrive at a workable solution in a real organization. Coding should not be something that is any kind of problem for you, it is just one of the tools you use to achieve the result.
- gentleman11 5y ago
  It sounds like you were asking a 25 year senior who has proven themselves able to start multiple companies leetcode style questions to decide if they are competent. The sort of questions that candidates have to waste months drilling for. That is insane and disrespectful towards the candidates time. Younger people put up with this but seniors know it’s nonsense and he was probably just tired of it all. You didn’t want to hire a software developer, you want a leetcoder
  - lmilcin 5y ago
    And you drew those conclusion knowing nothing about my age, credentials or the questions that were asked. You may not be aware, but anybody can start a company. It is not an achievement unless you call doing a bunch of paperwork an achievement. Neither is having 25 years of experience. It is just a fact you have been working for 25 years, says nothing about how well you've been doing.
  - alienthrowaway 5y ago
    > Younger people put up with this but seniors know it’s nonsense and he was probably just tired of it all. You didn’t want to hire a software developer, you want a leetcoder Senior here! I'm doing the leetcode grind and in preparation of interview rounds at companies that ask those sort of coding questions: I don' think it's a waste of time, it so happens that those companies pay very well, if you're willing to run the gauntlet. Preparing for the interviews is a signal in itself, as someone who sat on the other side of the interview table, I know the hiring companies needs every last signal it can get. I hope other seniors keep snootily refusing to do such interviews, for at least the next few months, that way, I'll face less competition :-)

Couple of months ago I got a candidate that, if you just looked at his CV, was well overqualified for the position. We were looking for a senior Java dev, we got a guy who had two degrees, 25 years of experience, and started no less than 3 companies. He also never sticked to anything for more than 2 years. The insults started with his first sentence, before he or we even got a chance to greet each other. We had some conferencing issues, the company just changed conferencing technology. In the previous any person could start the meeting but in the new one only the person who set up the meeting could start it. So there was some commotion to change the room. When we joined (about 4-5 minutes after planned start) he said something to the effect that we must be new to this interviewing thing. Nevermind, I continue the interview. I ask him why he wants to work as a developer, given so much experience. He said he hasn't been programming a lot recently and wants to "dirty his hands" again. Hmm... So we go to the technical part where he started manufacturing some false answers and after I pointed out what he says is factually incorrect he decided to critique the difficulty of questions he was getting. I explained that we give same questions to all candidates for the position. I reminded I said at the start that candidates are not expected to know answers to all questions and that it is perfectly fine to tell us and to skip to the next question. I sometimes tell the candidates (jokingly) that I give 5 points for telling me he doesn't know the answer. Though I did not say this in this case. It only got downhill from there after couple more questions. After he gave another nonsense answer I did not say anything but he looked at me and said "WHAT NOW!" And then started tirade that I am not qualified to interview him and can we maybe set up an interview directly with my manager.

solarengineer 5y ago
At my employer, we deliberately have a junior person interview senior candidates. It helps us understand how stuck the candidate is about their seniority, whether they can explain something to an interviewer who clearly doesn't have the same exposure as the candidate.
- lmilcin 5y ago
  This could be fun but there are just too many reasons not to do it. One is that you need to understand the technical questions perfectly so that you can ask deep probing questions, spot when candidate tries to wing it, etc. All the while evaluating various aspects of the answers and trying to figure out if you are getting all different aspects you need. After all, the best way too interview is to have a discussion with the candidate. If you just have a list of closed questions you could give him a test to fill out. You also need to be quite self aware of your own limitations and be able to distinguish between objective and your own preconceptions. As an example, I may like strongly typed languages and the candidate may have other preference. You need to be able to recognize that this is only your preference and try to objectively evaluate regardless of this. Otherwise you run the risk of hiring people that are exactly like you which is interviewing mistake #1.
  - no-s 5y ago
    Often the “leetcode” interview gets tedious. Im not a demon coder, I just seek local minima and reuse things. We stand on the shoulders of giants. Then I imagine what Aphyr would do and start giggling. It’s often downhill from there. "You have, in fact, heard this one before. In your browser, search for “fizzbuzz solution”, and pick the first link that looks promising. Copy and paste. You are a real engineer.” [1] [1] https://aphyr.com/posts/353-rewriting-the-technical-interview https://aphyr.com/posts/353-rewriting-the-technical-intervie...
    - lmilcin 5y ago
      First, you would be surprised how many candidates can't do something like fizzbuzz correctly. Second, if I ask you coding question I am not going after your existing knowledge but rather about how you deal with problems to which you don't know the solution for. After all that is what development is -- building something without necessarily knowing the solution when you start. Third, I don't care how good coder you are (well, I do a little). What I do care when I ask you coding question is that you can think logically, ask right questions, work with me to find a solution to the problem and also that you can use the tools that are at your disposal. Development is a lot of abilities and if the only thing you know is how to write more code then that is how you are going to approach every problem. As they say, if the only thing you have is a hammer... Most corporate software is extremely simple (or at least it should be). Writing REST API to run couple of agreed rules on objects in a database, call an external service or send a message over network is not a pinnacle of technical achievement. Arriving at the right solution in a large and complex organization, with many forces around you, people trying to overcomplicate your solution, stakeholders trying to drive your design or speed up development because refactoring is for pussies, on the other hand, is. Now, I interview only senior engineers and up. I expect senior engineers to be able to arrive at a workable solution in a real organization. Coding should not be something that is any kind of problem for you, it is just one of the tools you use to achieve the result.
gentleman11 5y ago
It sounds like you were asking a 25 year senior who has proven themselves able to start multiple companies leetcode style questions to decide if they are competent. The sort of questions that candidates have to waste months drilling for. That is insane and disrespectful towards the candidates time. Younger people put up with this but seniors know it’s nonsense and he was probably just tired of it all. You didn’t want to hire a software developer, you want a leetcoder
- lmilcin 5y ago
  And you drew those conclusion knowing nothing about my age, credentials or the questions that were asked. You may not be aware, but anybody can start a company. It is not an achievement unless you call doing a bunch of paperwork an achievement. Neither is having 25 years of experience. It is just a fact you have been working for 25 years, says nothing about how well you've been doing.
- alienthrowaway 5y ago
  > Younger people put up with this but seniors know it’s nonsense and he was probably just tired of it all. You didn’t want to hire a software developer, you want a leetcoder Senior here! I'm doing the leetcode grind and in preparation of interview rounds at companies that ask those sort of coding questions: I don' think it's a waste of time, it so happens that those companies pay very well, if you're willing to run the gauntlet. Preparing for the interviews is a signal in itself, as someone who sat on the other side of the interview table, I know the hiring companies needs every last signal it can get. I hope other seniors keep snootily refusing to do such interviews, for at least the next few months, that way, I'll face less competition :-)