3 ms·

>Plans never go 100% as we think they would. Let's start by not making hazardous plans for the sake of marketing, which is notoriously harmful in its short-sig

>Plans never go 100% as we think they would. Let's start by not making hazardous plans for the sake of marketing, which is notoriously harmful in its short-sightedness. What was the technical point behind the announcement of an eternal major version number? Clearly none, since upgrades to the underlying system are still happening, whether they are called Windows 11, Windows 10 "This-years-flavor Update", Windows 10 "2105" or "21H1" or whatever subversion name they come up with (with total inconsistency even here, in typical Microsoft fashion).

pjmlp 5y ago
By having Windows 11 Microsoft can have a clear cut with UWP, have Project Reunion bring in the features that should have been done on top of COM and .NET for Windows 8, and try to forget WinRT ever happened. With Windows 10 linage that kind of breaking change can't be done in a clean way.
- noisem4ker 5y ago
  I see. I find this to be a developer-focused view, though. Would users notice and care about any of those technologies? It's users, after all, that product names are targetet at, more than developers. And since Windows is known for its backwards compatibility, it's not like we're really talking about a breaking change, or is it?
  - hulitu 5y ago
    Yes. Windows 10 version numbering is a mess. What features are in 1908 version, or in 21H04 ? It is more or less the old Service pack system with a more obscure naming. And if there is a windows version which deserves to die, this is Windows 10. Is ugly, unusable, unconfigurable (white background with white icon text, fonts too small or too large, etc ), slow and insecure by default.
    - fomine3 5y ago
      I don't think it's messy. Year-Month based version scheme is most recognizable one. What's bad for Windows (or Microsoft) is that they think the version shouldn't duplicated to previous product (like Windows Embedded POSReady 2009 or Office 2010) so they changed to 20H2. Such duplication should be expected from the beginning.
  - pjmlp 5y ago
    Of course it also affects users, they are the target audience for the applications and need have a system that fulfills the requirements. UWP evolution is like Android updates, APIs are tied to specific versions and backwards compatibility is a mess. Win 8 had three programming models for tablet, phone and desktop. Win 8.1 merged tablet and desktop and called it UAP. Windows 10 merged all of them together than called it UWP and the whole One Core message. Then some key C++ developers started an internal movement at WinDev against C++/CX, managed to deprecate it. But here is the thing, after 4 years it still doesn't offer anything like C++/CX tooling, forcing a Notepad like experience for IDL files. Screw paying customers. Meanwhile .NET Native is stuck into C# 7.3 with .NET Core 3.1, with no roadmap. WinUI 3 is only planned for desktop with no roadmap for HoloLens and XBox. So both developers and users need to come to an agreement what their computers should be running. For me, pressing the red button and coming into an alternative version of "Windows 8", aka Windows 11, is the only way to sort out the mess Sinosfky started.

pjmlp 5y ago

By having Windows 11 Microsoft can have a clear cut with UWP, have Project Reunion bring in the features that should have been done on top of COM and .NET for Windows 8, and try to forget WinRT ever happened. With Windows 10 linage that kind of breaking change can't be done in a clean way.

noisem4ker 5y ago
I see. I find this to be a developer-focused view, though. Would users notice and care about any of those technologies? It's users, after all, that product names are targetet at, more than developers. And since Windows is known for its backwards compatibility, it's not like we're really talking about a breaking change, or is it?
- hulitu 5y ago
  Yes. Windows 10 version numbering is a mess. What features are in 1908 version, or in 21H04 ? It is more or less the old Service pack system with a more obscure naming. And if there is a windows version which deserves to die, this is Windows 10. Is ugly, unusable, unconfigurable (white background with white icon text, fonts too small or too large, etc ), slow and insecure by default.
  - fomine3 5y ago
    I don't think it's messy. Year-Month based version scheme is most recognizable one. What's bad for Windows (or Microsoft) is that they think the version shouldn't duplicated to previous product (like Windows Embedded POSReady 2009 or Office 2010) so they changed to 20H2. Such duplication should be expected from the beginning.
- pjmlp 5y ago
  Of course it also affects users, they are the target audience for the applications and need have a system that fulfills the requirements. UWP evolution is like Android updates, APIs are tied to specific versions and backwards compatibility is a mess. Win 8 had three programming models for tablet, phone and desktop. Win 8.1 merged tablet and desktop and called it UAP. Windows 10 merged all of them together than called it UWP and the whole One Core message. Then some key C++ developers started an internal movement at WinDev against C++/CX, managed to deprecate it. But here is the thing, after 4 years it still doesn't offer anything like C++/CX tooling, forcing a Notepad like experience for IDL files. Screw paying customers. Meanwhile .NET Native is stuck into C# 7.3 with .NET Core 3.1, with no roadmap. WinUI 3 is only planned for desktop with no roadmap for HoloLens and XBox. So both developers and users need to come to an agreement what their computers should be running. For me, pressing the red button and coming into an alternative version of "Windows 8", aka Windows 11, is the only way to sort out the mess Sinosfky started.