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Tokyo is an example of a "multicellural" city, with its Special Wards each functioning as a separate city with only some services shared among them. The wards

Tokyo is an example of a "multicellural" city, with its Special Wards each functioning as a separate city with only some services shared among them. The wards each have a population of a few hundred thousand people, and some take top spots in the list of biggest cities in Japan. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cities_in_Japan https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cities_in_Japan The city has been run like this for decades, and it seems to work out for Tokyo pretty well.

drak0n1c 5y ago
The Dallas Fort-Worth Metroplex is similar. Separate cities that have grown into each other (conurbation) yet retain separate counties and governance. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dallas%E2%80%93Fort_Worth_metroplex https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dallas%E2%80%93Fort_Worth_metr... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conurbation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conurbation
samatman 5y ago
New York's boroughs are another fine example. Arguably the Bay Area is something similar, and I would further argue would be much better off if it were closer in governance and self-concept to Tokyo or New York than it is in fact.
- bobthepanda 5y ago
  New York’s boroughs aren’t that decentralized, Manhattan is clearly the center with almost a quarter of metro area jobs and certainly not anywhere near a quarter of the metro’s population. Fun fact: Manhattan contains both the largest and fourth largest business districts in the US, Midtown and Downtown respectively.
  - fridif 5y ago
    Soon to be the 10th and 17th id imagine
    - bobthepanda 5y ago
      Based on what data? NYC is not being buffeted by a major trend that wouldn't also affect every other business district in the US.
      - fridif 5y ago
        NYC is being buffeted by rich/smart people leaving because of murder
  - wefarrell 5y ago
    Downtown Brooklyn, Jersey City and Long Island city have all skyrocketed in the past decade, granted they are all centered around Manhattan and can be viewed as skyscraper sprawl. Flushing, which is more on the outskirts, has grown rapidly very recently and has some massive development planned. The city is definitely moving in the direction of decentralization, but that could just be because the center is saturated. Will be interesting to see what it looks like in the next decade.
    - Ericson2314 5y ago
      I think a key step will be the Triboro RX. In the short term it would be a regular circumferential subway line, but that will allow Brooklyn and Queens to function without Manhattan more. I think the the combination of geography and state boundary politics makes NYC hard to actually become multi centered, but it wold be interesting to be proven wrong. Certainly we should strive to see Long Island, North Jersey, and West Connecticut have better rail and be less car-dominant.
      - bobthepanda 5y ago
        I have very severe doubts about TriboroRX happening in my lifetime because of a combination of exorbitant costs at the MTA ($12B and counting for East Side Access) and the State's/MTA's tendency to slow-walk and sandbag projects they're not particularly interested in ($8B estimates for the Rockaway Beach Branch, radio silence on Utica Avenue or NYS high speed rail)
        Ericson2314 5y ago
        ohhhhhh yes. I wrote "will" but I should have wrote "would"; I don't believe its inevitable by any means. > $8B estimates for the Rockaway Beach Branch That one still makes my blood boil. There's plenty of reasons why it might be low benefit, but it certainly shouldn't be anywhere near as high cost.
    - bobthepanda 5y ago
      No, Manhattan is still outpacing them all in terms of total and percentage job growth; their share of job growth is growing, but Manhattan is still a whopping 52%. https://www.osc.state.ny.us/files/reports/osdc/pdf/report-1-2020.pdf https://www.osc.state.ny.us/files/reports/osdc/pdf/report-1-... Hudson Yards and Midtown East are not showing signs of slowing down. Flushing is mostly meds and retail, which is fine for a shopping district but is not indicative of a greater jobs market trend. Manhattan's tyranny is largely due to its geography; it is the only place with fast, reliable mass transit access to all of the metropolitan area, and companies don't want to limit their labor pool. It is a pain in the ass to travel within Queens on mass transit (say, Rochdale to Flushing), let alone travel from some place like Westchester or New Jersey to Flushing. Flushing is no Shibuya or Shinjuku.
- GuB-42 5y ago
  The thing is that Tokyo has no city center. The actual center is the Emperor's palace, which is mostly empty and not accessible to the public. Other than that, each ward has its own downtown, its own suburbs. It really feels like Tokyo is not a city at all but a place where different cities decided to stick together, and administratively, it is. Shinjuku would be closest to a capital but not everything centers around it, in fact, it is not even where the "Tokyo" station is.
- failwhaleshark 5y ago
  The Bay Area is like amoebas or trees that grew into each other. It's almost impossible to tell the different between where one city starts and the next ends. "Am I in San Jose or Los Gatos?" 37°14'13.57"N 121°55'30.49"W "Is this Mountain View, Palo Alto, or Los Altos?" 37°24'15.38"N 122° 7'4.09"W "Are we in San Jose, Saratoga, or Cupertino?" 37°18'11.21"N 122° 1'3.23"W
anthk 5y ago
Barcelona is a good and obvious example.
- failwhaleshark 5y ago
  I always wonder about the word "obvious." Does it need to be a universal quality or experience in order to be obvious? For example, I have no idea about Barcelona having not had the pleasure of visiting there yet.
bsedlm 5y ago
I suppose most big-enough metropolitan areas are like this. Mexico city is now (technically) a "state" with a few different cities (municipalities) which are nontheless seamlessly blended together.

drak0n1c 5y ago

The Dallas Fort-Worth Metroplex is similar. Separate cities that have grown into each other (conurbation) yet retain separate counties and governance. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dallas%E2%80%93Fort_Worth_metroplex https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dallas%E2%80%93Fort_Worth_metr... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conurbation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conurbation

samatman 5y ago

New York's boroughs are another fine example. Arguably the Bay Area is something similar, and I would further argue would be much better off if it were closer in governance and self-concept to Tokyo or New York than it is in fact.

bobthepanda 5y ago
New York’s boroughs aren’t that decentralized, Manhattan is clearly the center with almost a quarter of metro area jobs and certainly not anywhere near a quarter of the metro’s population. Fun fact: Manhattan contains both the largest and fourth largest business districts in the US, Midtown and Downtown respectively.
- fridif 5y ago
  Soon to be the 10th and 17th id imagine
  - bobthepanda 5y ago
    Based on what data? NYC is not being buffeted by a major trend that wouldn't also affect every other business district in the US.
    - fridif 5y ago
      NYC is being buffeted by rich/smart people leaving because of murder
- wefarrell 5y ago
  Downtown Brooklyn, Jersey City and Long Island city have all skyrocketed in the past decade, granted they are all centered around Manhattan and can be viewed as skyscraper sprawl. Flushing, which is more on the outskirts, has grown rapidly very recently and has some massive development planned. The city is definitely moving in the direction of decentralization, but that could just be because the center is saturated. Will be interesting to see what it looks like in the next decade.
  - Ericson2314 5y ago
    I think a key step will be the Triboro RX. In the short term it would be a regular circumferential subway line, but that will allow Brooklyn and Queens to function without Manhattan more. I think the the combination of geography and state boundary politics makes NYC hard to actually become multi centered, but it wold be interesting to be proven wrong. Certainly we should strive to see Long Island, North Jersey, and West Connecticut have better rail and be less car-dominant.
    - bobthepanda 5y ago
      I have very severe doubts about TriboroRX happening in my lifetime because of a combination of exorbitant costs at the MTA ($12B and counting for East Side Access) and the State's/MTA's tendency to slow-walk and sandbag projects they're not particularly interested in ($8B estimates for the Rockaway Beach Branch, radio silence on Utica Avenue or NYS high speed rail)
      - Ericson2314 5y ago
        ohhhhhh yes. I wrote "will" but I should have wrote "would"; I don't believe its inevitable by any means. > $8B estimates for the Rockaway Beach Branch That one still makes my blood boil. There's plenty of reasons why it might be low benefit, but it certainly shouldn't be anywhere near as high cost.
  - bobthepanda 5y ago
    No, Manhattan is still outpacing them all in terms of total and percentage job growth; their share of job growth is growing, but Manhattan is still a whopping 52%. https://www.osc.state.ny.us/files/reports/osdc/pdf/report-1-2020.pdf https://www.osc.state.ny.us/files/reports/osdc/pdf/report-1-... Hudson Yards and Midtown East are not showing signs of slowing down. Flushing is mostly meds and retail, which is fine for a shopping district but is not indicative of a greater jobs market trend. Manhattan's tyranny is largely due to its geography; it is the only place with fast, reliable mass transit access to all of the metropolitan area, and companies don't want to limit their labor pool. It is a pain in the ass to travel within Queens on mass transit (say, Rochdale to Flushing), let alone travel from some place like Westchester or New Jersey to Flushing. Flushing is no Shibuya or Shinjuku.
GuB-42 5y ago
The thing is that Tokyo has no city center. The actual center is the Emperor's palace, which is mostly empty and not accessible to the public. Other than that, each ward has its own downtown, its own suburbs. It really feels like Tokyo is not a city at all but a place where different cities decided to stick together, and administratively, it is. Shinjuku would be closest to a capital but not everything centers around it, in fact, it is not even where the "Tokyo" station is.
failwhaleshark 5y ago
The Bay Area is like amoebas or trees that grew into each other. It's almost impossible to tell the different between where one city starts and the next ends. "Am I in San Jose or Los Gatos?" 37°14'13.57"N 121°55'30.49"W "Is this Mountain View, Palo Alto, or Los Altos?" 37°24'15.38"N 122° 7'4.09"W "Are we in San Jose, Saratoga, or Cupertino?" 37°18'11.21"N 122° 1'3.23"W

anthk 5y ago

Barcelona is a good and obvious example.

failwhaleshark 5y ago
I always wonder about the word "obvious." Does it need to be a universal quality or experience in order to be obvious? For example, I have no idea about Barcelona having not had the pleasure of visiting there yet.

bsedlm 5y ago

I suppose most big-enough metropolitan areas are like this. Mexico city is now (technically) a "state" with a few different cities (municipalities) which are nontheless seamlessly blended together.