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> Zoom I’m both a remote maximalist, and a Zoom hater. I reconciled this by eliminating meetings. Turns out, 99% of all software can be built, managed, scaled

> Zoom I’m both a remote maximalist, and a Zoom hater. I reconciled this by eliminating meetings. Turns out, 99% of all software can be built, managed, scaled, and sold asynchronously.

lolinder 5y ago
Can you provide more details about how this works? I'm stuck with Zoom meetings that I feel are long and ineffective, but I'm not sure how to sell my manager on eliminating them.
- ryanSrich 5y ago
  I started my own company. Not necessarily to get rid of meetings, but because I absolutely cannot stand the modern tech work environment. I’d think managers would see the elimination of meetings as a direct threat to their job. So I don’t have any good suggestions. You could just try skipping them? See if you get in trouble? Push it all the way to getting a pip. That’s what I’d do lol.
  - hirako2000 5y ago
    Until managers realise they can actually manage in writing, and the fact it gives back plenty of time to actually engage directly with the few individuals who need more 1/1 interactions to address issues they are having. I think managers benefit even more from less meetings since they have even more meetings in the first place.
- hirako2000 5y ago
  Simply don't join the meetings. For this not to fire back, it's also simple: inform the organiser in advance that you won't join, that s/he should let you know if your presense is absolutely necessary for input, and to email the outcome if relevant to your work. After a while, you can stop informing them as they've gotten used to your absence and realised you aren't needed. Whoever remains in these meetings tend to feel even better selling each others thin air without practical participants making negative comments during those discussions. It worked for me. Of course beware there could be retaliation on principle. If that's the case you better update your CV and start seeking another remote position anyway.
  - missedthecue 5y ago
    This sounds like a really good way to make sure you get the smallest raises and the least promotions. You'll never be seen or heard!
    - hirako2000 5y ago
      My view is that raises and promotions don't tie to whether someone is heared or not. If one criteria matters, it's negociating skills. After that probably comes competence. Not joining meetings should provide you with as much time saved to focus on actual work. Growing competence, and lead to higher/better throuput. I've seen a number of people playing the "let's be heard/noisy" card. It often works for a while but not in the long term. Time spent at "work" can be spent with a short sighted objective, or a long one. Even if I made a mistake of interpretation and attending meetings can result in better outcomes, I would still favor mental health and maximising time spent to improving my competence, over fears to loose my job or not getting a promotion raises from the current employer.
      - missedthecue 5y ago
        In my experience, it's not necessarily the person who does the most work that gets promoted, but the person who gets the most recognition. Sitting at home never seeing, hearing, speaking, or interacting with people save for brief slack messages just doesn't seem like the best way to get recognition.
    - spacedcowboy 5y ago
      This, right here, is what is wrong with meeting culture.
      - missedthecue 5y ago
        It would be nice if it wasn't this way, but unilaterally excluding yourself from this meeting culture only hurts you.
gajjanag 5y ago
So much this. Until a company adopts a no-BS policy towards meetings, I do not see the point. 80% of my time in company meetings is just wasted. I have talked to my colleagues about this - they feel the same. At least with remote work, I can politely tune out of useless meeting filler by muting audio/video. Contrast that with grad school, where every minute of my meetings with my advisors was time well spent.
midrus 5y ago
But now you'll see a lot of people replying to you "but hey... how are we supposed to make friends and be a family then?". Can't agree more with you.

> Zoom I’m both a remote maximalist, and a Zoom hater. I reconciled this by eliminating meetings. Turns out, 99% of all software can be built, managed, scaled, and sold asynchronously.

lolinder 5y ago

Can you provide more details about how this works? I'm stuck with Zoom meetings that I feel are long and ineffective, but I'm not sure how to sell my manager on eliminating them.

ryanSrich 5y ago
I started my own company. Not necessarily to get rid of meetings, but because I absolutely cannot stand the modern tech work environment. I’d think managers would see the elimination of meetings as a direct threat to their job. So I don’t have any good suggestions. You could just try skipping them? See if you get in trouble? Push it all the way to getting a pip. That’s what I’d do lol.
- hirako2000 5y ago
  Until managers realise they can actually manage in writing, and the fact it gives back plenty of time to actually engage directly with the few individuals who need more 1/1 interactions to address issues they are having. I think managers benefit even more from less meetings since they have even more meetings in the first place.
hirako2000 5y ago
Simply don't join the meetings. For this not to fire back, it's also simple: inform the organiser in advance that you won't join, that s/he should let you know if your presense is absolutely necessary for input, and to email the outcome if relevant to your work. After a while, you can stop informing them as they've gotten used to your absence and realised you aren't needed. Whoever remains in these meetings tend to feel even better selling each others thin air without practical participants making negative comments during those discussions. It worked for me. Of course beware there could be retaliation on principle. If that's the case you better update your CV and start seeking another remote position anyway.
- missedthecue 5y ago
  This sounds like a really good way to make sure you get the smallest raises and the least promotions. You'll never be seen or heard!
  - hirako2000 5y ago
    My view is that raises and promotions don't tie to whether someone is heared or not. If one criteria matters, it's negociating skills. After that probably comes competence. Not joining meetings should provide you with as much time saved to focus on actual work. Growing competence, and lead to higher/better throuput. I've seen a number of people playing the "let's be heard/noisy" card. It often works for a while but not in the long term. Time spent at "work" can be spent with a short sighted objective, or a long one. Even if I made a mistake of interpretation and attending meetings can result in better outcomes, I would still favor mental health and maximising time spent to improving my competence, over fears to loose my job or not getting a promotion raises from the current employer.
    - missedthecue 5y ago
      In my experience, it's not necessarily the person who does the most work that gets promoted, but the person who gets the most recognition. Sitting at home never seeing, hearing, speaking, or interacting with people save for brief slack messages just doesn't seem like the best way to get recognition.
  - spacedcowboy 5y ago
    This, right here, is what is wrong with meeting culture.
    - missedthecue 5y ago
      It would be nice if it wasn't this way, but unilaterally excluding yourself from this meeting culture only hurts you.

gajjanag 5y ago

So much this. Until a company adopts a no-BS policy towards meetings, I do not see the point. 80% of my time in company meetings is just wasted. I have talked to my colleagues about this - they feel the same. At least with remote work, I can politely tune out of useless meeting filler by muting audio/video. Contrast that with grad school, where every minute of my meetings with my advisors was time well spent.

midrus 5y ago

But now you'll see a lot of people replying to you "but hey... how are we supposed to make friends and be a family then?". Can't agree more with you.