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I think this guy is missing one reason you definitely want to run browser based password managers, especially at a business. And that is... phishing. Not ever

by miedpo 5y ago

I think this guy is missing one reason you definitely want to run browser based password managers, especially at a business. And that is... phishing. Not every one is tech savy enough to notice a phishing site and some phishing sites are hard to notice even for those who are aware. Browser based password managers fix this problem. Yes, the browser vendor and the password manager vendor are weak points, but it's oftentimes safer than dealing with phishing especially for those not as aware of it as you are. Also the other guy who mentioned re-used passwords has another good point.

tialaramex 5y ago
Prefer WebAuthn to fix phishing. The problem your approach has is that the user always really believes this is the BigCorp site - from their point of view the stupid password manager isn't working as intended, they need their BigCorp password and it isn't being filled out. The user will definitely figure out how to work around this (e.g. with cut-paste), almost always before they realise (if they ever do) that it's actually a phishing scam. Because the user simply cannot work around the mystery problem with WebAuthn on a phishing site you have two advantages. Obviously firstly your users can't give away their credentials to phishing scams, because there's just no way to do that even if they are 100% certain that's what they need to do. So that's nice. But the more subtle advantage is for site owners. When the new Big Boss wants to replace bigcorp.example with new-brand-name-awkward-suffix.example you can't do that in WebAuthn. "Just make it work". Can't. "We paid brand consultants $1M for this domain name. Make it work". Can't. bigcorp.example will have to exist forever or you'll have to explicitly re-enroll all your users. Contrast the situation with a password manager where I can 100% guarantee somebody will tell you to just basically help phishing scammers to steal all your users credentials, rather than admit senior management are incompetent buffoons.
- miedpo 5y ago
  Mmm... haven't tried WebAuthn, so I'll have to figure that out. Curiously, I haven't had the issue with coworkers at my company using their password where they shouldn't... but the company I'm at is rather small... and I do scare them with a long phishing presentation when they join the company, and show them all the ways they can be phished, and tell them very carefully not to use passwords where they aren't suggested... I bet there are people who are like that though. And that would be a pain =/. I haven't had to deal with the 2nd thing you mentioned, but yeah, I imagine it's quite a bit more secure that way. I bet it's caused a few trouble calls, that's for sure. I'll check out WebAuthn though.

by miedpo 5y ago

tialaramex 5y ago

Prefer WebAuthn to fix phishing. The problem your approach has is that the user always really believes this is the BigCorp site - from their point of view the stupid password manager isn't working as intended, they need their BigCorp password and it isn't being filled out. The user will definitely figure out how to work around this (e.g. with cut-paste), almost always before they realise (if they ever do) that it's actually a phishing scam. Because the user simply cannot work around the mystery problem with WebAuthn on a phishing site you have two advantages. Obviously firstly your users can't give away their credentials to phishing scams, because there's just no way to do that even if they are 100% certain that's what they need to do. So that's nice. But the more subtle advantage is for site owners. When the new Big Boss wants to replace bigcorp.example with new-brand-name-awkward-suffix.example you can't do that in WebAuthn. "Just make it work". Can't. "We paid brand consultants $1M for this domain name. Make it work". Can't. bigcorp.example will have to exist forever or you'll have to explicitly re-enroll all your users. Contrast the situation with a password manager where I can 100% guarantee somebody will tell you to just basically help phishing scammers to steal all your users credentials, rather than admit senior management are incompetent buffoons.

miedpo 5y ago
Mmm... haven't tried WebAuthn, so I'll have to figure that out. Curiously, I haven't had the issue with coworkers at my company using their password where they shouldn't... but the company I'm at is rather small... and I do scare them with a long phishing presentation when they join the company, and show them all the ways they can be phished, and tell them very carefully not to use passwords where they aren't suggested... I bet there are people who are like that though. And that would be a pain =/. I haven't had to deal with the 2nd thing you mentioned, but yeah, I imagine it's quite a bit more secure that way. I bet it's caused a few trouble calls, that's for sure. I'll check out WebAuthn though.