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UK Cable on Tiananmen Square Massacre

12 points by notRobot 5y ago

notRobot 5y ago
Everyone (at least in the West) seems to know about tank man, but there's another story that's not as widely known and I never understood why. It shines a whole new light on this and explains why the Chinese government is so heavy handed when it comes to this subject. It was more than just another autocratic crackdown on protestors, which while terrible are par for the course. . A good chunk of military units sent in to squash the protestors refused to carry out their orders, refused to brutalize and kill their countrymen. Some actively joined in on the protests, then units sent in to put a stop it joined in as well. This terrified the Chinese leadership so they sent in the 27th army group, largely comprised of illiterate peasant farmers with no connection to Beijing or its people, headed by a politically reliable officer. The 27th army group then proceeded to massacre everyone, not 'just' students and protestors, but their own comrades in arms, other PLA soldiers. Read the British embassy report and tell me it doesn't completely change your perspective. The CCP wants everyone to think this was just another protest, no big deal. It wasn't, it was the time they almost lost control, and they know it. It's why they're so fearful. https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/UK_cable_on_Tiananmen_Square_Massacre https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/UK_cable_on_Tiananmen_Square_... From https://old.reddit.com/r/news/comments/nsg2do/ https://old.reddit.com/r/news/comments/nsg2do/
- Udik 5y ago
  Reading the Wikipedia entry about the Tienanmen massacre, it seems that that cable is completely unreliable. While Western estimates of the number of victims is now of about three thousand at most, decade long efforts in China to locate the victims' families has only managed to count about 200, more or less consistent with China's official numbers. Also, apparently, there was no massacre in the square itself, which was evacuated by military mostly in anti-riot gear. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1989_Tiananmen_Square_protests https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1989_Tiananmen_Square_protes...
  - nakedrobot2 5y ago
    Thank you, Ten Cent Army, for trying to discredit everything. Thanks but no thanks :)
    - Udik 5y ago
      Come on, do you seriously believe I'm paid by the Chinese government? I just went to the Wikipedia entry and read it. I can't vouch for its correctness, but it contains more info than the GP. If you're in doubt, you can check it and check the relative discussion in the talk page - sometimes if there is bias in the entry the talk page highlights it (I didn't check it).

12 points by notRobot 5y ago

Everyone (at least in the West) seems to know about tank man, but there's another story that's not as widely known and I never understood why. It shines a whole new light on this and explains why the Chinese government is so heavy handed when it comes to this subject. It was more than just another autocratic crackdown on protestors, which while terrible are par for the course. . A good chunk of military units sent in to squash the protestors refused to carry out their orders, refused to brutalize and kill their countrymen. Some actively joined in on the protests, then units sent in to put a stop it joined in as well. This terrified the Chinese leadership so they sent in the 27th army group, largely comprised of illiterate peasant farmers with no connection to Beijing or its people, headed by a politically reliable officer. The 27th army group then proceeded to massacre everyone, not 'just' students and protestors, but their own comrades in arms, other PLA soldiers. Read the British embassy report and tell me it doesn't completely change your perspective. The CCP wants everyone to think this was just another protest, no big deal. It wasn't, it was the time they almost lost control, and they know it. It's why they're so fearful. https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/UK_cable_on_Tiananmen_Square_Massacre https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/UK_cable_on_Tiananmen_Square_... From https://old.reddit.com/r/news/comments/nsg2do/ https://old.reddit.com/r/news/comments/nsg2do/

Udik 5y ago
Reading the Wikipedia entry about the Tienanmen massacre, it seems that that cable is completely unreliable. While Western estimates of the number of victims is now of about three thousand at most, decade long efforts in China to locate the victims' families has only managed to count about 200, more or less consistent with China's official numbers. Also, apparently, there was no massacre in the square itself, which was evacuated by military mostly in anti-riot gear. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1989_Tiananmen_Square_protests https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1989_Tiananmen_Square_protes...
- nakedrobot2 5y ago
  Thank you, Ten Cent Army, for trying to discredit everything. Thanks but no thanks :)
  - Udik 5y ago
    Come on, do you seriously believe I'm paid by the Chinese government? I just went to the Wikipedia entry and read it. I can't vouch for its correctness, but it contains more info than the GP. If you're in doubt, you can check it and check the relative discussion in the talk page - sometimes if there is bias in the entry the talk page highlights it (I didn't check it).