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> Then they use the false justification to trick low-intelligence people into believing it's actually justified. I don't agree with this. Anyone who has been f

> Then they use the false justification to trick low-intelligence people into believing it's actually justified. I don't agree with this. Anyone who has been following politics has noticed the growth in the left's base, mainly from the college educated. A lot of these activists seem to be motivated by the (ironically) paternalistic notion that they know better than the groups they advocate for.

benrbray 5y ago
I see quite a few unsubstantiated claims like this being thrown around in this thread. Can you help by clarifying 1) which activists? 2) which groups to which they do not belong are they speaking on behalf of? 3) in what way do they think they know better? 4) who among these groups has spoken out against what activists say? and 5) what gives you the impression that the activists have not consulted with the groups they represent (if they are not themselves members of the group)?
- dgfitz 5y ago
  1) the woke ones. 2) see the comment up thread about the disabled person expected to to fall in line because they’re part of a minority group. 3) see kafkatrap. 4) unsure what you’re asking. 5) see latinx conversation up thread.
- damagednoob 5y ago
  What triggered my comment was episode 225 of Rationally Speaking[1]. In it, there was an interview with Veena Dubal[2] where she (according to the podcast) is a prominent advocate for AB5 [3]. In it, she concedes that taxi drivers themselves have been polled[4] and _do not_ want be classified as employees and want to maintain their independent contractor status. So in answer to your bullet points: 1) Veena Dubal 2) Uber drivers (I mean, I could be mistaken. Perhaps this professor of law moonlights as an Uber driver. If so, I would continue to argue that this is not her main vocation.) 3) She wants Uber drivers to be classified as employees 4) The majority of Uber drivers 5) Nothing and I never said they hadn't consulted. In this case, quite clearly they have consulted with the groups but have not listened. Now, in the podcast, Dubal goes on to dispute the polling methodology of the various polls. Well okay, re-poll with your questions and present the data. The point I'm trying to make is that you don't ram through legislation before convincing the people you're going to affect the most that it's good for them. Educate and convince them first. [1]: http://rationallyspeakingpodcast.org/255-are-uber-and-lyft-drivers-being-exploited/ http://rationallyspeakingpodcast.org/255-are-uber-and-lyft-d... [2]: https://www.uchastings.edu/people/veena-dubal/ https://www.uchastings.edu/people/veena-dubal/ [3]: https://www.investopedia.com/california-assembly-bill-5-ab5-4773201 https://www.investopedia.com/california-assembly-bill-5-ab5-... [4]: https://thehill.com/policy/technology/513506-uber-poll-drivers-overwhelmingly-support-independent-contractor-status https://thehill.com/policy/technology/513506-uber-poll-drive...
goatinaboat 5y ago
low-intelligence people mainly from the college educated What would you call going $200,000 into debt for a non-STEM degree? College education is no sign of intelligence, it’s often the opposite.
- scandox 5y ago
  Gotta agree here. Only Americans think University and brains are directly correlated.
  - ta988 5y ago
    Absolutely untrue, seen that all over Europe as well.
- ryanbrunner 5y ago
  College education, including a fair amount of STEM, is an admission fee to be considered middle-class (or higher, depending on which school you went to). Nothing more. What you actually learn in college is 100% secondary to being able to say that you went to school X (and have the connections from that school).
tremon 5y ago
You're assuming that intelligent and college-educated are near-synonyms. I've seen plenty of evidence that's not necessarily true.
- bjourne 5y ago
  Is this evidence you speak of your own personal and subjective experience or is it peer-reviewed studies? If it is of the latter kind, could you provide some citations for me to peruse?
  - tremon 5y ago
    Yes, it is the peer-reviewed studies, and in particular their quality, that I'm speaking of.
    - bjourne 5y ago
      Are you certain that you are qualified to judge the quality of peer-reviewed studies? In either case, that isn't what I was asking about and you know it.
      - CRConrad 5y ago
        Why wouldn't they be qualified? Are they perhaps not college-educated... And therefore not intelligent enough?

benrbray 5y ago

I see quite a few unsubstantiated claims like this being thrown around in this thread. Can you help by clarifying 1) which activists? 2) which groups to which they do not belong are they speaking on behalf of? 3) in what way do they think they know better? 4) who among these groups has spoken out against what activists say? and 5) what gives you the impression that the activists have not consulted with the groups they represent (if they are not themselves members of the group)?

dgfitz 5y ago
1) the woke ones. 2) see the comment up thread about the disabled person expected to to fall in line because they’re part of a minority group. 3) see kafkatrap. 4) unsure what you’re asking. 5) see latinx conversation up thread.
damagednoob 5y ago
What triggered my comment was episode 225 of Rationally Speaking[1]. In it, there was an interview with Veena Dubal[2] where she (according to the podcast) is a prominent advocate for AB5 [3]. In it, she concedes that taxi drivers themselves have been polled[4] and _do not_ want be classified as employees and want to maintain their independent contractor status. So in answer to your bullet points: 1) Veena Dubal 2) Uber drivers (I mean, I could be mistaken. Perhaps this professor of law moonlights as an Uber driver. If so, I would continue to argue that this is not her main vocation.) 3) She wants Uber drivers to be classified as employees 4) The majority of Uber drivers 5) Nothing and I never said they hadn't consulted. In this case, quite clearly they have consulted with the groups but have not listened. Now, in the podcast, Dubal goes on to dispute the polling methodology of the various polls. Well okay, re-poll with your questions and present the data. The point I'm trying to make is that you don't ram through legislation before convincing the people you're going to affect the most that it's good for them. Educate and convince them first. [1]: http://rationallyspeakingpodcast.org/255-are-uber-and-lyft-drivers-being-exploited/ http://rationallyspeakingpodcast.org/255-are-uber-and-lyft-d... [2]: https://www.uchastings.edu/people/veena-dubal/ https://www.uchastings.edu/people/veena-dubal/ [3]: https://www.investopedia.com/california-assembly-bill-5-ab5-4773201 https://www.investopedia.com/california-assembly-bill-5-ab5-... [4]: https://thehill.com/policy/technology/513506-uber-poll-drivers-overwhelmingly-support-independent-contractor-status https://thehill.com/policy/technology/513506-uber-poll-drive...

goatinaboat 5y ago

low-intelligence people mainly from the college educated What would you call going $200,000 into debt for a non-STEM degree? College education is no sign of intelligence, it’s often the opposite.

scandox 5y ago
Gotta agree here. Only Americans think University and brains are directly correlated.
- ta988 5y ago
  Absolutely untrue, seen that all over Europe as well.
ryanbrunner 5y ago
College education, including a fair amount of STEM, is an admission fee to be considered middle-class (or higher, depending on which school you went to). Nothing more. What you actually learn in college is 100% secondary to being able to say that you went to school X (and have the connections from that school).

tremon 5y ago

You're assuming that intelligent and college-educated are near-synonyms. I've seen plenty of evidence that's not necessarily true.

bjourne 5y ago
Is this evidence you speak of your own personal and subjective experience or is it peer-reviewed studies? If it is of the latter kind, could you provide some citations for me to peruse?
- tremon 5y ago
  Yes, it is the peer-reviewed studies, and in particular their quality, that I'm speaking of.
  - bjourne 5y ago
    Are you certain that you are qualified to judge the quality of peer-reviewed studies? In either case, that isn't what I was asking about and you know it.
    - CRConrad 5y ago
      Why wouldn't they be qualified? Are they perhaps not college-educated... And therefore not intelligent enough?