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There's significant funding and political force at the local, state and federal levels that, if allowed, would "ban" LGBT existence and put Christianity as the

There's significant funding and political force at the local, state and federal levels that, if allowed, would "ban" LGBT existence and put Christianity as the U.S. official religion. Along with every other crazy idea you can think of. Luckily, there's funding and work in opposition. People can be very comfortable sitting on an unbalanced rock, until it tips.

refurb 5y ago
Something like 80%+ of Americans support LGBT rights and people who identify as religious (in general) is rapidly dropping. Your religious right may have been a real national force in 1980, but not now. It’s just a boogie man.
- trasz 5y ago
  Repeated - and, sadly, successful - attempts to deny the right to abortion shows the religious wackos are at least a state-level force that can’t be ignored.
  - refurb 5y ago
    Abortion is not an LGBT issue and anti-abortion types are not exclusively religious. The split between anti-abortion and pro-abortion is almost 50/50 in the US and 50% of America are not fundamentalist Christians.
    - trasz 5y ago
      There are no arguments against early abortion that wouldn’t be either religiously motivated, or based on non- religious logical fallacy. From what I’ve seen on American media, almost all of it is religiously motivated. It doesn’t matter that fundamentalists don’t identify themselves as fundamentalist.
      - refurb 5y ago
        Just because you don’t see it doesn’t mean it’s a logical fallacy or religiously motivated. Get out of your bubble and talk to people and you’ll learn things!
        trasz 5y ago
        I did. That’s how I know the reasoning behind this is false. “Life from conception” is no different from flat earthism.
      - dragonwriter 5y ago
        > There are no arguments against early abortion that wouldn’t be either religiously motivated, or based on non- religious logical fallacy. This is only true if you expand “religious” to mean “based on moral axioms regardless of source”, but then, any argument for or against doing (or allowing, or prohibiting) anything would be religious. > From what I’ve seen on American media, almost all of it is religiously motivated. OTOH, yes, the American anti-abortion movement is almost entirely a product of politically weaponized Christian conservatism. > It doesn’t matter that fundamentalists don’t identify themselves as fundamentalist. While the religious groups involve overlap with Fundamentalism (which is a particular subset of Protestantism), they aren’t all Fundamentalist.
        trasz 5y ago
        Based on moral axioms, abortion is human right. Unless your moral axioms are fundamentally flawed, which is what I’ve described above.
        dragonwriter 5y ago
        > Based on moral axioms, abortion is human right Based on the moral axioms you’ve chosen. Axioms are, by definition, unsupported and unsupportable. > Unless your moral axioms are fundamentally flawed, which is what I’ve described above. No, what you described above was belief that was “religiously motivated, or based on non- religious logical fallacy.” Axioms are the roots from which logic works, they aren't based on logic, fallacious or otherwise. And there's no reason moral axioms that conflict with abortion need to be religiously motivated, either. Sure, you might view any moral axioms thst disagree with yours as “fundamentally flawed”, but that doesn’t salvage your earlier description.
Bostonian 5y ago
This is hyperbole. There is a First Amendment standing in the way of making Christianity an official religion. I am conservative and follow political forums. Conservatives may oppose gay marriage but do not seek to re-criminalize homosexual relations.
- trasz 5y ago
  The fact that they were able to deny gay marriage proves the First Amandment pretty worthless.
gher-shyu3i 5y ago
Some would argue that the current circus show headed by the far left is the epitome of "every other crazy idea you can think of".
ralusek 5y ago
What political force? There is no mainstream political interest in America targeted towards banning homosexuality.
teatree 5y ago
When reason fails, use fear or violence eh? The US is in a bad state today because people have forgotten how to speak to each other respectfully, they don't agree to disagree, they violently disagree. Fear mongering and labeling will only make things worse. Both sides need to stop explaining, justifying and funding their bad apples by pointing to the other. In medical terms, stop tying to cure an infection with another infection of your own.
- oblio 5y ago
  > When reason fails And what "reason" might that be and how did it fail? :-)
- michaelmrose 5y ago
  I'm sorry the current state of the US has nothing whatsoever to do with a breakdown of dialog. Nobody looks at a Lion closing its jaws around an antelope and thinks gee what a failure to communicate there. If only they had talked it out. 40 years ago the right wing decided to build its platform on a combination of white people, Christianity, and conservative social and sexual mores. This went swimmingly for a while but none is the fastest growing religion, white people are headed to be the largest minority instead of a majority by 2040s, and more liberal perspective on sex is becoming increasingly common. https://www.pewforum.org/2019/10/17/in-u-s-decline-of-christianity-continues-at-rapid-pace/ https://www.pewforum.org/2019/10/17/in-u-s-decline-of-christ... https://www.census.gov/newsroom/press-releases/2015/cb15-tps16.html https://www.census.gov/newsroom/press-releases/2015/cb15-tps... https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2020/06/25/global-divide-on-homosexuality-persists/ https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2020/06/25/global-divide-... To be specific we have gone from half of people believing homosexuality should be accepted to 72% in the last 20 years. White people are slated to become merely the largest minority by 2044, and Christians went from 77% to 65% in 14 years. If your bread and butter is white people, who have strong feelings about sexual mores and jesus by 2044 you are going to be looking at 10% of the population down from closer to 50% in 1980. Hell leave out the sexual mores and white Christians are sliding from 64% heading towards 25%. The republican party hasn't had anything like an acceptable game with any other group in decades. They are losing the country because they built their house on sand and they are freaking out about it instead of making a coherent plan half their party is already off the deep end and wont be dragged back.

refurb 5y ago

Something like 80%+ of Americans support LGBT rights and people who identify as religious (in general) is rapidly dropping. Your religious right may have been a real national force in 1980, but not now. It’s just a boogie man.

trasz 5y ago
Repeated - and, sadly, successful - attempts to deny the right to abortion shows the religious wackos are at least a state-level force that can’t be ignored.
- refurb 5y ago
  Abortion is not an LGBT issue and anti-abortion types are not exclusively religious. The split between anti-abortion and pro-abortion is almost 50/50 in the US and 50% of America are not fundamentalist Christians.
  - trasz 5y ago
    There are no arguments against early abortion that wouldn’t be either religiously motivated, or based on non- religious logical fallacy. From what I’ve seen on American media, almost all of it is religiously motivated. It doesn’t matter that fundamentalists don’t identify themselves as fundamentalist.
    - refurb 5y ago
      Just because you don’t see it doesn’t mean it’s a logical fallacy or religiously motivated. Get out of your bubble and talk to people and you’ll learn things!
      - trasz 5y ago
        I did. That’s how I know the reasoning behind this is false. “Life from conception” is no different from flat earthism.
    - dragonwriter 5y ago
      > There are no arguments against early abortion that wouldn’t be either religiously motivated, or based on non- religious logical fallacy. This is only true if you expand “religious” to mean “based on moral axioms regardless of source”, but then, any argument for or against doing (or allowing, or prohibiting) anything would be religious. > From what I’ve seen on American media, almost all of it is religiously motivated. OTOH, yes, the American anti-abortion movement is almost entirely a product of politically weaponized Christian conservatism. > It doesn’t matter that fundamentalists don’t identify themselves as fundamentalist. While the religious groups involve overlap with Fundamentalism (which is a particular subset of Protestantism), they aren’t all Fundamentalist.
      - trasz 5y ago
        Based on moral axioms, abortion is human right. Unless your moral axioms are fundamentally flawed, which is what I’ve described above.
        dragonwriter 5y ago
        > Based on moral axioms, abortion is human right Based on the moral axioms you’ve chosen. Axioms are, by definition, unsupported and unsupportable. > Unless your moral axioms are fundamentally flawed, which is what I’ve described above. No, what you described above was belief that was “religiously motivated, or based on non- religious logical fallacy.” Axioms are the roots from which logic works, they aren't based on logic, fallacious or otherwise. And there's no reason moral axioms that conflict with abortion need to be religiously motivated, either. Sure, you might view any moral axioms thst disagree with yours as “fundamentally flawed”, but that doesn’t salvage your earlier description.

Bostonian 5y ago

This is hyperbole. There is a First Amendment standing in the way of making Christianity an official religion. I am conservative and follow political forums. Conservatives may oppose gay marriage but do not seek to re-criminalize homosexual relations.

trasz 5y ago
The fact that they were able to deny gay marriage proves the First Amandment pretty worthless.

gher-shyu3i 5y ago

Some would argue that the current circus show headed by the far left is the epitome of "every other crazy idea you can think of".

ralusek 5y ago

What political force? There is no mainstream political interest in America targeted towards banning homosexuality.

teatree 5y ago

When reason fails, use fear or violence eh? The US is in a bad state today because people have forgotten how to speak to each other respectfully, they don't agree to disagree, they violently disagree. Fear mongering and labeling will only make things worse. Both sides need to stop explaining, justifying and funding their bad apples by pointing to the other. In medical terms, stop tying to cure an infection with another infection of your own.

oblio 5y ago
> When reason fails And what "reason" might that be and how did it fail? :-)
michaelmrose 5y ago
I'm sorry the current state of the US has nothing whatsoever to do with a breakdown of dialog. Nobody looks at a Lion closing its jaws around an antelope and thinks gee what a failure to communicate there. If only they had talked it out. 40 years ago the right wing decided to build its platform on a combination of white people, Christianity, and conservative social and sexual mores. This went swimmingly for a while but none is the fastest growing religion, white people are headed to be the largest minority instead of a majority by 2040s, and more liberal perspective on sex is becoming increasingly common. https://www.pewforum.org/2019/10/17/in-u-s-decline-of-christianity-continues-at-rapid-pace/ https://www.pewforum.org/2019/10/17/in-u-s-decline-of-christ... https://www.census.gov/newsroom/press-releases/2015/cb15-tps16.html https://www.census.gov/newsroom/press-releases/2015/cb15-tps... https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2020/06/25/global-divide-on-homosexuality-persists/ https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2020/06/25/global-divide-... To be specific we have gone from half of people believing homosexuality should be accepted to 72% in the last 20 years. White people are slated to become merely the largest minority by 2044, and Christians went from 77% to 65% in 14 years. If your bread and butter is white people, who have strong feelings about sexual mores and jesus by 2044 you are going to be looking at 10% of the population down from closer to 50% in 1980. Hell leave out the sexual mores and white Christians are sliding from 64% heading towards 25%. The republican party hasn't had anything like an acceptable game with any other group in decades. They are losing the country because they built their house on sand and they are freaking out about it instead of making a coherent plan half their party is already off the deep end and wont be dragged back.