4 ms·

Why ? because some one could stole my money or because someone else could log in without my authorization? What if there is a way to prevent that without PIN or

by matz1 5y ago

Why ? because some one could stole my money or because someone else could log in without my authorization? What if there is a way to prevent that without PIN or private key ?

Jorengarenar 5y ago
Both because someone could stole your money or authorize unwanted action. What other way of preventing that do you propose? Fingerprint? I will will send the data of fingerprint. Facial recognition? I will just grab your profile picture. What kind of method do you envise that could prove you are you and not somebody malicious?
- matz1 5y ago
  I'm obviously not the expert, my point is we should try to seek the solution to the problem that arise when the information is public instead of trying to hide the information. Here is another example: some people argue for privacy because the information can be used to criminalized gay people. Well then fix the criminalization of gay people instead of trying to hide the fact that they are gay.
  - Jorengarenar 5y ago
    Don't change the example. I want to know how do you imagine a method of authentication not requiring any privacy could work. What could be the way to prevent a theft without PIN or private key if your credit card number leak to public?
    - matz1 5y ago
      > I want to know how do you imagine a method of authentication not requiring any privacy could work >Facial Recognition? That could be one way > I will just grab your profile picture. Then maybe fix it to detect whether its a real person or just a picture. Or maybe there are better way, I don't know. Like I said, I'm not the expert, I wouldn't know every solution to every problem. My point is we should spent the effort on figuring out that problem instead of trying to keep thing hiding.
      - Jorengarenar 5y ago
        Since you yourself said you are not an expert, then ask yourself, why do experts make security based on hidden passwords instead of focusing on creating those public-indifferent solutions? Could it be that passwords/PINS/secrets are one of the easiest, cheapest and reliable way of preventing unauthorized access since the ancient times?
        matz1 5y ago
        There are tons of problem with secret being leaked, forgotten, thats why we should start figuring out a better way.
        Jorengarenar 5y ago
        You know, before anybody starts working on something, they need to at least have a hint it may work and not be easily compromised - e.g. what's preventing hacker from just copying the expected data from facial recognition system and pasting it themselves since it's public? You say "just fix it to detect whether it's legit data" - how? Deep fakes are getting better by the day, we already have problems with recognizing them ourselves.
        matz1 5y ago
        >You say "just fix it to detect whether it's legit data" - how? Deep fakes are getting better by the day, we already have problems with recognizing them ourselve Again, I'm not the expert, every situation will may require its unique solution. >You say "just fix it to detect whether it's legit data" - how Yes this my attempt to at least give a hint with my far from expert knowledge. My point is we should spend our effort to solve this instead of trying to make information private.
        Jorengarenar 5y ago
        > Yes this my attempt to at least give a hint with my far from expert knowledge. No, this isn't a hint, because I already stated why it wouldn't work: thief will just use publicly available data and create deep fake to mimic the owner of the bank account. If we had technology which could magically determine whether received data is genuine, the only safety check would be "Are you an owner? [y/n]" > My point is we should spend our effort to solve this instead of trying to make information private. Again, nobody sane ever have spend any effort on something without even a hint for it being possible. I am asking: what's your argument to even think it's possible?

by matz1 5y ago

Why ? because some one could stole my money or because someone else could log in without my authorization? What if there is a way to prevent that without PIN or private key ?

Jorengarenar 5y ago

Both because someone could stole your money or authorize unwanted action. What other way of preventing that do you propose? Fingerprint? I will will send the data of fingerprint. Facial recognition? I will just grab your profile picture. What kind of method do you envise that could prove you are you and not somebody malicious?

matz1 5y ago
I'm obviously not the expert, my point is we should try to seek the solution to the problem that arise when the information is public instead of trying to hide the information. Here is another example: some people argue for privacy because the information can be used to criminalized gay people. Well then fix the criminalization of gay people instead of trying to hide the fact that they are gay.
- Jorengarenar 5y ago
  Don't change the example. I want to know how do you imagine a method of authentication not requiring any privacy could work. What could be the way to prevent a theft without PIN or private key if your credit card number leak to public?
  - matz1 5y ago
    > I want to know how do you imagine a method of authentication not requiring any privacy could work >Facial Recognition? That could be one way > I will just grab your profile picture. Then maybe fix it to detect whether its a real person or just a picture. Or maybe there are better way, I don't know. Like I said, I'm not the expert, I wouldn't know every solution to every problem. My point is we should spent the effort on figuring out that problem instead of trying to keep thing hiding.
    - Jorengarenar 5y ago
      Since you yourself said you are not an expert, then ask yourself, why do experts make security based on hidden passwords instead of focusing on creating those public-indifferent solutions? Could it be that passwords/PINS/secrets are one of the easiest, cheapest and reliable way of preventing unauthorized access since the ancient times?
      - matz1 5y ago
        There are tons of problem with secret being leaked, forgotten, thats why we should start figuring out a better way.
        Jorengarenar 5y ago
        You know, before anybody starts working on something, they need to at least have a hint it may work and not be easily compromised - e.g. what's preventing hacker from just copying the expected data from facial recognition system and pasting it themselves since it's public? You say "just fix it to detect whether it's legit data" - how? Deep fakes are getting better by the day, we already have problems with recognizing them ourselves.
        matz1 5y ago
        >You say "just fix it to detect whether it's legit data" - how? Deep fakes are getting better by the day, we already have problems with recognizing them ourselve Again, I'm not the expert, every situation will may require its unique solution. >You say "just fix it to detect whether it's legit data" - how Yes this my attempt to at least give a hint with my far from expert knowledge. My point is we should spend our effort to solve this instead of trying to make information private.
        Jorengarenar 5y ago
        > Yes this my attempt to at least give a hint with my far from expert knowledge. No, this isn't a hint, because I already stated why it wouldn't work: thief will just use publicly available data and create deep fake to mimic the owner of the bank account. If we had technology which could magically determine whether received data is genuine, the only safety check would be "Are you an owner? [y/n]" > My point is we should spend our effort to solve this instead of trying to make information private. Again, nobody sane ever have spend any effort on something without even a hint for it being possible. I am asking: what's your argument to even think it's possible?