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I'm guessing it goes like this: 1. Skipping vaccine line and talking about it is not actually against BookFace/YC ToS, or it would be a stretch to apply ToS.

I'm guessing it goes like this: 1. Skipping vaccine line and talking about it is not actually against BookFace/YC ToS, or it would be a stretch to apply ToS. 2. Publicly talking about matters inside the private group is against ToS since it breaches privacy. In a way that paints the group negatively, nonetheless. Pretty straightforward. It doesn't really matter *to YC* whether anyone skipped a line or not, what matters are private forum matters getting blasted to hundreds (thousands?) of Twitter users. Edit: before you get angry, I'm presenting this from the most plausible perspective of YC, not my own feelings on the matter (which are irrelevant). Edit2: what are people seeing that I'm not seeing here? Clearly I'm missing something, because wow I've never gotten piled on like this on HN.

CRConrad 5y ago
> 2. Publicly talking about matters inside the private group is against ToS So never mind their high-falutin' ideas of Founders being A Better Class Of People; in the end it's just frickin' Fight Club after all.
ctvo 5y ago
And it’s why YC doesn’t have the reputation it once did. Letting Sam bro up the institution wasn’t the best decision in hindsight as this incident demonstrates.
- geofft 5y ago
  pg believes the Civil War wasn't actually about slavery (http://www.paulgraham.com/marginal.html http://www.paulgraham.com/marginal.html), so I'm not sure that Sam actually made the place worse.
  - SyzygistSix 5y ago
    That's a really disingenuous take from a single line in an essay that is not about the subject. If we could say "The Civil War was about slavery" and be done with the subject, I'm pretty sure so many books, studies, and histories about the subject would not have been made.
    - geofft 5y ago
      I mean, we can say that and be done with the subject. For instance, just look at the seceding states' articles of secession: they quite plainly spell out that they are seceding because of slavery and to join the other slaveholding states. But there are a whole lot of Americans who wish to believe that the South had a noble cause (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lost_Cause_of_the_Confederacy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lost_Cause_of_the_Confederacy), and they are more than happy to buy books and watch TV shows explaining what that cause is, so such books and TV shows get written. The Civil War was just a couple of generations ago, and involved a huge chunk of the country. The various organizations attempting to rehabilitate their legacy (e.g., the Daughters of the Confederacy) are younger still, and active today. It's not actually surprising that there are a large number of Americans who for whatever reason wish to believe that there was a better reason for the Confederacy to do what it did than slavery - the Daughters, for instance, are quite literally descended from Confederate soldiers, so there is a natural desire to believe that they fought for a worthy cause. But the number of people who believe it is hardly evidence that it's true. What is noteworthy that Paul Graham (who wasn't even born in the US!) is one of those people, and moreover doesn't simply believe (as you're claiming) that there's a legitimate debate about what the Civil War was about - he believes that the possibility that the Civil War was about slavery is a "cartoon version" which can't possibly be true. And yes, it's a throwaway line in an unrelated talk. But he still said it as if he believed it, and the alternative interpretation - that he doesn't really believe it and said it anyway because he thought it would please his audience - is that he is a man of poor judgment and a loud mouth in things he should judge less and speak less on, which goes to my point that Sam did not "bro up" YC, it was already rotten.
      - SyzygistSix 5y ago
        I think you are attributing a lot of things to Graham that he didn't say. He did not say that it was not about slavery. Again, if it was an issue that could be expressed in a single sentence, it would not have inspired the many studies that it has. That is not to deny that the Civil War was about slavery, which I am certainly not. As to what Graham believes, a single sentence means only that. And does not mean he thinks its opposite is true. Not everything is an either/or proposition. Quite often things are more a both/and situation.
  - jacquesm 5y ago
    ugh.
anigbrowl 5y ago
Your post is a bit inaccurate. Biggar tweeted about his unhappiness about the behavior of a person in the private group. He received a public response fromt he person in question with a dismissive meme. He in turn responded to that. So, one could argue that the line-jumping-advocate relinquished his privacy in the first place.
- whymauri 5y ago
  I'm under the impression that any public commentary about what goes on inside that forum is generally discouraged, but that's just what I've seen. Although this is an interesting point, for sure.
  - sampo 5y ago
    > I'm under the impression that any public commentary about what goes on inside that forum is generally discouraged When private organizations in their internal culture and functioning deviate too far away from common social norms, you kinda hope that a whistleblower or the press calls them out for it.
  - anigbrowl 5y ago
    That wouldn't surprise me. Don't worry about the downvotes, it's not unusual for votes on a post to oscillate wildly in any sort of hot topic because people often revert to tribalism as they first scan the thread.
  - throwthrowbye 5y ago
    You are correct. YC emphasizes regularly that the forums are private and otherwise the people wouldn’t share as much or give blunter truth. Having seen screenshots of the post in question, it was bad, but it also would have been strange to kick someone out for that. The poster is an asshole and proud of it, but the community seems to have responded directly.
amznthrwaway 5y ago
Read the Paul Graham essay on “What You Can’t Say” and realize that YC culture has things you can’t say. YC culture allows you to say ‘here is how to marginally undermine a public health effort for your own benefit”, but YC culture does not allow you to publicly say “people at YC teach each other how to undermine a public health effort for their own benefit”. Anything that is critical of YC or Paul is heresy. Anything that prioritizes society over a YC participant is heresy. These things can’t be done publicly, or you’ll be cast out of YC. http://www.paulgraham.com/say.html http://www.paulgraham.com/say.html

CRConrad 5y ago

> 2. Publicly talking about matters inside the private group is against ToS So never mind their high-falutin' ideas of Founders being A Better Class Of People; in the end it's just frickin' Fight Club after all.

ctvo 5y ago

And it’s why YC doesn’t have the reputation it once did. Letting Sam bro up the institution wasn’t the best decision in hindsight as this incident demonstrates.

geofft 5y ago
pg believes the Civil War wasn't actually about slavery (http://www.paulgraham.com/marginal.html http://www.paulgraham.com/marginal.html), so I'm not sure that Sam actually made the place worse.
- SyzygistSix 5y ago
  That's a really disingenuous take from a single line in an essay that is not about the subject. If we could say "The Civil War was about slavery" and be done with the subject, I'm pretty sure so many books, studies, and histories about the subject would not have been made.
  - geofft 5y ago
    I mean, we can say that and be done with the subject. For instance, just look at the seceding states' articles of secession: they quite plainly spell out that they are seceding because of slavery and to join the other slaveholding states. But there are a whole lot of Americans who wish to believe that the South had a noble cause (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lost_Cause_of_the_Confederacy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lost_Cause_of_the_Confederacy), and they are more than happy to buy books and watch TV shows explaining what that cause is, so such books and TV shows get written. The Civil War was just a couple of generations ago, and involved a huge chunk of the country. The various organizations attempting to rehabilitate their legacy (e.g., the Daughters of the Confederacy) are younger still, and active today. It's not actually surprising that there are a large number of Americans who for whatever reason wish to believe that there was a better reason for the Confederacy to do what it did than slavery - the Daughters, for instance, are quite literally descended from Confederate soldiers, so there is a natural desire to believe that they fought for a worthy cause. But the number of people who believe it is hardly evidence that it's true. What is noteworthy that Paul Graham (who wasn't even born in the US!) is one of those people, and moreover doesn't simply believe (as you're claiming) that there's a legitimate debate about what the Civil War was about - he believes that the possibility that the Civil War was about slavery is a "cartoon version" which can't possibly be true. And yes, it's a throwaway line in an unrelated talk. But he still said it as if he believed it, and the alternative interpretation - that he doesn't really believe it and said it anyway because he thought it would please his audience - is that he is a man of poor judgment and a loud mouth in things he should judge less and speak less on, which goes to my point that Sam did not "bro up" YC, it was already rotten.
    - SyzygistSix 5y ago
      I think you are attributing a lot of things to Graham that he didn't say. He did not say that it was not about slavery. Again, if it was an issue that could be expressed in a single sentence, it would not have inspired the many studies that it has. That is not to deny that the Civil War was about slavery, which I am certainly not. As to what Graham believes, a single sentence means only that. And does not mean he thinks its opposite is true. Not everything is an either/or proposition. Quite often things are more a both/and situation.
- jacquesm 5y ago
  ugh.

anigbrowl 5y ago

Your post is a bit inaccurate. Biggar tweeted about his unhappiness about the behavior of a person in the private group. He received a public response fromt he person in question with a dismissive meme. He in turn responded to that. So, one could argue that the line-jumping-advocate relinquished his privacy in the first place.

whymauri 5y ago
I'm under the impression that any public commentary about what goes on inside that forum is generally discouraged, but that's just what I've seen. Although this is an interesting point, for sure.
- sampo 5y ago
  > I'm under the impression that any public commentary about what goes on inside that forum is generally discouraged When private organizations in their internal culture and functioning deviate too far away from common social norms, you kinda hope that a whistleblower or the press calls them out for it.
- anigbrowl 5y ago
  That wouldn't surprise me. Don't worry about the downvotes, it's not unusual for votes on a post to oscillate wildly in any sort of hot topic because people often revert to tribalism as they first scan the thread.
- throwthrowbye 5y ago
  You are correct. YC emphasizes regularly that the forums are private and otherwise the people wouldn’t share as much or give blunter truth. Having seen screenshots of the post in question, it was bad, but it also would have been strange to kick someone out for that. The poster is an asshole and proud of it, but the community seems to have responded directly.

amznthrwaway 5y ago

Read the Paul Graham essay on “What You Can’t Say” and realize that YC culture has things you can’t say. YC culture allows you to say ‘here is how to marginally undermine a public health effort for your own benefit”, but YC culture does not allow you to publicly say “people at YC teach each other how to undermine a public health effort for their own benefit”. Anything that is critical of YC or Paul is heresy. Anything that prioritizes society over a YC participant is heresy. These things can’t be done publicly, or you’ll be cast out of YC. http://www.paulgraham.com/say.html http://www.paulgraham.com/say.html