10 ms·

As discussed extensively in the Bing thread [0] comments, this is because DDG uses Bing’s search index. Microsoft has acknowledged this is in error...[1] (thou

by varenc 5y ago

As discussed extensively in the Bing thread [0] comments, this is because DDG uses Bing’s search index. Microsoft has acknowledged this is in error...[1] (though the error seems to be that censorship meant to just apply to China is being applied everywhere) [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27395635 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27395635 [1] https://www.vice.com/en/article/qj8v9m/bing-censors-tank-man https://www.vice.com/en/article/qj8v9m/bing-censors-tank-man

jakeva 5y ago
I didn't know DDG uses Bing's search index. What exactly is their value proposition over Bing then?
- ipnon 5y ago
  It's a search proxy service. You can use a VPN to mask your traffic's origin behind your VPN provider's IP, you can use DDG image search to mask your queries behind DDG.
- sdeframond 5y ago
  I believe DDG does not track you.
- thih9 5y ago
  No profiling. > DuckDuckGo distinguishes itself from other search engines by not profiling its users and by showing all users the same search results for a given search term. Also note that DDG doesn’t just rely on Bing. > DuckDuckGo's results are a compilation of "over 400" sources, including Yahoo! Search BOSS, Wolfram Alpha, Bing, Yandex, its own web crawler (the DuckDuckBot) and others. Source: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/DuckDuckGo https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/DuckDuckGo
  - mda 5y ago
    "doesn't rely on bing" but actually mostly rely on bing, they want to create this illusion to hide this ugly fact.
  - zwaps 5y ago
    Well either it uses only Bing for images, or it also censors. Because I sure wasn't able to find the picture on DDG. So either way, as a user of DDG from day one - it's dead to me.
    - foxhop 5y ago
      This is concerning.
  - Dah00n 5y ago
    >showing all users the same search results for a given search term. I'm definitely not seeing the same search results from DDG on my PC as on my phone (using different networks). So they do show different results based on something.
  - vatueil 5y ago
    Those other sources are mostly used for special results such as "Instant Answers". DDG's main search results mostly come from Bing, as the source for that Wikipedia statement reveals: https://help.duckduckgo.com/results/sources/ https://help.duckduckgo.com/results/sources/ > We also of course have more traditional links in the search results, which we also source from multiple partners, though most commonly from Bing (and none from Google). Anyone can see this for themselves by comparing a number of Bing and DDG searches.
- rllearneratwork 5y ago
  neither did I - not using DDG again. Back to Google :(
  - Sebb767 5y ago
    I don't think going back to Google because DDG is not large enough to have its own fully independent index is really the right play. Given their reputation and usually lax attitude towards censoring, I'd say this akin to a supply chain attack, not active censoring.
    - foxhop 5y ago
      Agreed, I bet as users of ddg we could press the team at duckduckgo to prioritize a fix for this failure mode of censorship. Maybe they can somehow detect censorship real-time and have their own hot image cache for a certain sized corpus. This is a fun problem for them to solve for us now that it's a failure mode they didn't fully appreciate until now. They are a search engine aggregator, they need another feed for internet images. This is an engineering problem to do cheaply centrally or distributed.
mustacheemperor 5y ago
The search shows images now, but none of them are related to Tienanmen. They're generic images of tanks. That seems worse, honestly, since before it was obvious to anyone something was being censored. Was the "error" that the search was completely blank instead of full of faux-result clutter?
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
ALittleLight 5y ago
A Microsoft spokesperson told Motherboard in an email that "This is due to an accidental human error and we are actively working to resolve this." ------ There is no way this is due to an accidental human error. The lying on this point is infuriating.
- throwaway492338 5y ago
  Accidentally applied worldwide instead of just China sounds possible (or more possible than "my fingers slipped on the t, a, ... keys")
  - ALittleLight 5y ago
    It is still not giving the correct results. Now Bing is pretending not to understand and giving innocuous pictures rather than the famous one. We can tell it's not just because of Bing's poor quality because similar searches, but slightly reworded get the iconic picture. I don't see how it could've possibly been an accident when they "fix it" by slightly obscuring it. It's intentional deception and censorship by Microsoft. And it is particularly galling, because Microsoft, a massive and powerful international company without serious risk is cowering in fear of the same organization that one man, with everything to lose, stood against alone. Microsoft is trying to hide that he did so.
- kevincox 5y ago
  Why not. A human was asked to fulfill a request to block the "tank man" search in China and forgot to add the country restriction. There is no way to know if it is true, but it is definitely possible. This is probably an interface that isn't used incredibly frequently and may not be as polished as one might hope.
  - gtyras2mrs 5y ago
    > A human was asked to fulfill a request to block the "tank man" search in China and forgot to add the country restriction. But why would someone be asked to block it today - if it's to be blocked in China, wouldn't it be blocked all through out the year? Why specifically would they ask it to be blocked just now and not years ago? I can't know for sure, but it just feels like a rogue employee deciding to block "tank man" globally on the anniversary ...
musicale 5y ago
> error seems to be that censorship meant to just apply to China is being applied everywhere That's a succinct way of putting it.

by varenc 5y ago

jakeva 5y ago

I didn't know DDG uses Bing's search index. What exactly is their value proposition over Bing then?

ipnon 5y ago
It's a search proxy service. You can use a VPN to mask your traffic's origin behind your VPN provider's IP, you can use DDG image search to mask your queries behind DDG.
sdeframond 5y ago
I believe DDG does not track you.
thih9 5y ago
No profiling. > DuckDuckGo distinguishes itself from other search engines by not profiling its users and by showing all users the same search results for a given search term. Also note that DDG doesn’t just rely on Bing. > DuckDuckGo's results are a compilation of "over 400" sources, including Yahoo! Search BOSS, Wolfram Alpha, Bing, Yandex, its own web crawler (the DuckDuckBot) and others. Source: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/DuckDuckGo https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/DuckDuckGo
- mda 5y ago
  "doesn't rely on bing" but actually mostly rely on bing, they want to create this illusion to hide this ugly fact.
- zwaps 5y ago
  Well either it uses only Bing for images, or it also censors. Because I sure wasn't able to find the picture on DDG. So either way, as a user of DDG from day one - it's dead to me.
  - foxhop 5y ago
    This is concerning.
- Dah00n 5y ago
  >showing all users the same search results for a given search term. I'm definitely not seeing the same search results from DDG on my PC as on my phone (using different networks). So they do show different results based on something.
- vatueil 5y ago
  Those other sources are mostly used for special results such as "Instant Answers". DDG's main search results mostly come from Bing, as the source for that Wikipedia statement reveals: https://help.duckduckgo.com/results/sources/ https://help.duckduckgo.com/results/sources/ > We also of course have more traditional links in the search results, which we also source from multiple partners, though most commonly from Bing (and none from Google). Anyone can see this for themselves by comparing a number of Bing and DDG searches.
rllearneratwork 5y ago
neither did I - not using DDG again. Back to Google :(
- Sebb767 5y ago
  I don't think going back to Google because DDG is not large enough to have its own fully independent index is really the right play. Given their reputation and usually lax attitude towards censoring, I'd say this akin to a supply chain attack, not active censoring.
  - foxhop 5y ago
    Agreed, I bet as users of ddg we could press the team at duckduckgo to prioritize a fix for this failure mode of censorship. Maybe they can somehow detect censorship real-time and have their own hot image cache for a certain sized corpus. This is a fun problem for them to solve for us now that it's a failure mode they didn't fully appreciate until now. They are a search engine aggregator, they need another feed for internet images. This is an engineering problem to do cheaply centrally or distributed.

mustacheemperor 5y ago

The search shows images now, but none of them are related to Tienanmen. They're generic images of tanks. That seems worse, honestly, since before it was obvious to anyone something was being censored. Was the "error" that the search was completely blank instead of full of faux-result clutter?

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

ALittleLight 5y ago

A Microsoft spokesperson told Motherboard in an email that "This is due to an accidental human error and we are actively working to resolve this." ------ There is no way this is due to an accidental human error. The lying on this point is infuriating.

throwaway492338 5y ago
Accidentally applied worldwide instead of just China sounds possible (or more possible than "my fingers slipped on the t, a, ... keys")
- ALittleLight 5y ago
  It is still not giving the correct results. Now Bing is pretending not to understand and giving innocuous pictures rather than the famous one. We can tell it's not just because of Bing's poor quality because similar searches, but slightly reworded get the iconic picture. I don't see how it could've possibly been an accident when they "fix it" by slightly obscuring it. It's intentional deception and censorship by Microsoft. And it is particularly galling, because Microsoft, a massive and powerful international company without serious risk is cowering in fear of the same organization that one man, with everything to lose, stood against alone. Microsoft is trying to hide that he did so.
kevincox 5y ago
Why not. A human was asked to fulfill a request to block the "tank man" search in China and forgot to add the country restriction. There is no way to know if it is true, but it is definitely possible. This is probably an interface that isn't used incredibly frequently and may not be as polished as one might hope.
- gtyras2mrs 5y ago
  > A human was asked to fulfill a request to block the "tank man" search in China and forgot to add the country restriction. But why would someone be asked to block it today - if it's to be blocked in China, wouldn't it be blocked all through out the year? Why specifically would they ask it to be blocked just now and not years ago? I can't know for sure, but it just feels like a rogue employee deciding to block "tank man" globally on the anniversary ...

musicale 5y ago

> error seems to be that censorship meant to just apply to China is being applied everywhere That's a succinct way of putting it.