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>No one sane would ever want their relatives, friends, work colleagues, and neighbors to be able to know (quoting from the OP): The things you mentioned are ki

by treis 5y ago

>No one sane would ever want their relatives, friends, work colleagues, and neighbors to be able to know (quoting from the OP): The things you mentioned are kind of how it was before the advent modern civilization. Before Facebook tracking it was old biddy tracking. Through gossip everyone knew pretty much everyone's business. That said, there's not an immediately obvious connection between surveillance and our neighbors knowing things. I have 0 information about who my neighborhors are sleeping with based on their cell phone tracking.

ramphastidae 5y ago
I downvoted this because I can’t read this as anything but a disingenuous comparison. Surely you can understand the difference in scale and motive behind village gossip and global surveillance by profit-seeking corporations.
- saddlerustle 5y ago
  "global surveillance by profit-seeking corporations" is a string of scary words, but gossip is much more likely to cause the average person clear, tangible harm. Just pointing out that digital tracking is creepy doesn't do much to convince most people to inconvenience themselves at all.
- treis 5y ago
  The point is that everyone knowing everyone's business is the "natural" state of human society. For most of human history all my neighbors would know who I'm banging. It doesn't take some sort of insanity to live like that. And you've only addressed half my argument. I don't know who my neighbor is banging because of cell phone tracking. You don't know who your neighbor is banging. Nobody in this thread knows who their neighbor is banging. It's an entirely theoretical danger that has not yet come to pass.
bryanrasmussen 5y ago
>Before Facebook tracking it was old biddy tracking. Through gossip everyone knew pretty much everyone's business. As already noted the difference in scale, but obviously if you didn't like what the old biddies tracked about you in your small town you could move to a new one and start over - you can't with the global surveillance system. finally it should be obvious that not everyone lived in a small enough town that the old biddy network was actually useful for tracking you.
NortySpock 5y ago
Yeah, it's in grandma's forgetful brain, and to be fair she probably (a) has usually learned the value of discretion, (b) will pass away in a few years and (c) can sometimes be dismissed as a fibber. The computer on the other hand, is an eternal record and can be dumped into the open by any hacker or wannabe-hacker for ill intent or just for fun. I guess, there's no appropriate reputation scale for what we see on the internet (it's either perfectly trustworthy or a total sham), there's no forgetfulness in terms of minor misdeeds, and there's no way to argue with the public consensus once they've made up their hivemind... "No really, I've changed in the 10 years since I wrote that post!"

by treis 5y ago

ramphastidae 5y ago

I downvoted this because I can’t read this as anything but a disingenuous comparison. Surely you can understand the difference in scale and motive behind village gossip and global surveillance by profit-seeking corporations.

saddlerustle 5y ago
"global surveillance by profit-seeking corporations" is a string of scary words, but gossip is much more likely to cause the average person clear, tangible harm. Just pointing out that digital tracking is creepy doesn't do much to convince most people to inconvenience themselves at all.
treis 5y ago
The point is that everyone knowing everyone's business is the "natural" state of human society. For most of human history all my neighbors would know who I'm banging. It doesn't take some sort of insanity to live like that. And you've only addressed half my argument. I don't know who my neighbor is banging because of cell phone tracking. You don't know who your neighbor is banging. Nobody in this thread knows who their neighbor is banging. It's an entirely theoretical danger that has not yet come to pass.

bryanrasmussen 5y ago

>Before Facebook tracking it was old biddy tracking. Through gossip everyone knew pretty much everyone's business. As already noted the difference in scale, but obviously if you didn't like what the old biddies tracked about you in your small town you could move to a new one and start over - you can't with the global surveillance system. finally it should be obvious that not everyone lived in a small enough town that the old biddy network was actually useful for tracking you.

NortySpock 5y ago

Yeah, it's in grandma's forgetful brain, and to be fair she probably (a) has usually learned the value of discretion, (b) will pass away in a few years and (c) can sometimes be dismissed as a fibber. The computer on the other hand, is an eternal record and can be dumped into the open by any hacker or wannabe-hacker for ill intent or just for fun. I guess, there's no appropriate reputation scale for what we see on the internet (it's either perfectly trustworthy or a total sham), there's no forgetfulness in terms of minor misdeeds, and there's no way to argue with the public consensus once they've made up their hivemind... "No really, I've changed in the 10 years since I wrote that post!"