6 ms·

My best friend and his wife are the best parents I've ever seen in practice, in many ways. Quality time, attention, simulating activities etc. They're both scho

by mod 5y ago

My best friend and his wife are the best parents I've ever seen in practice, in many ways. Quality time, attention, simulating activities etc. They're both schoolteachers. BUT! Their kids eat 3 meals for dinner: pizza, chicken nuggets with French fries, or easy Mac. For lunch they have pb&j, for breakfast eggs or cereal. Chips and candy for snacks. Throw in some applesauce you suck out of little pouches. That's it. I'm pretty much appalled. The kids seem healthy, although I'm not an expert. But man, they're missing out on literally all the good stuff. I hope they come around in a couple years. I haven't asked them their plan or anything. I'm firmly in the camp of not cooking around kids unless they really hate one particular thing, or it's too spicy perhaps, or an allergy.

brandonmenc 5y ago
I became an extremely picky eater suddenly around age 4. I literally didn't eat a single vegetable or fruit that wasn't an onion or tomato sauce until age 20, and my diet consisted mostly of "kid food" - hamburgers, hot dogs, breakfast cereal, milk, etc. Meanwhile, my family was eating lots of home cooked mediterranean meals. I can't count the number of times I'd be eating a hot dog while they were enjoying something like stinky artichokes. My parents cooked around me. Never forced me to eat anything I didn't like. Never insisted I "just try" a food that was going to make me gag. Shortly after I turned 20, something just clicked and I started eating everything. Now my diet is more varied than the rest of my family. Don't force your kids to eat stuff they hate. If they're not actually malnourished or obese, they'll likely turn out fine. The last thing you want to do is establish a pattern of stress and anguish re: meals and food. That probably never turns out well in the long run.
- ivraatiems 5y ago
  Good-sounding advice I have heard from professionals is a middle ground between your approach and the grandparent comments' "this is what the meal is" approach: Don't cook separate meals for your kids, but include at least one food in the meal the child will definitely eat, even if it's just bread, crackers, etc. (I have also heard "don't make dessert separate from the rest of the meal.") Also, if your kids are old enough, don't pre-portion the food or serve it to the kids; let them make their own plates. If they just eat bread and cheese, that's up to them - but it doesn't set up the idea that they are going to get something "special" if they don't like what's being offered. Not being a parent, I have no idea whether this works. I'd be interested to hear whether anyone has tried an approach like this. I'm sure kids can find some way to defeat it no matter how good it sounds. Personally, my biggest issue growing up was less pickiness (like a lot of kids, I went through a picky phase and emerged from it not picky), and more that my parents had the classic "finish what's on your plate" rule, which I think has definitely contributed to unhealthy eating habits in adulthood.
  - hamburglar 5y ago
    One problem with parenting is that there is so much simple advice out there that “works” for some people so they become quite sure they’ve found the one true answer. We have raised both kids with the same “this is dinner” attitude and it worked wonderfully on the first kid and not at all on the second kid. It’s hubris for people to think they have figured out what works enough to tell others they should do the same.
  - hathawsh 5y ago
    One of my daughters finds almost all foods revolting. She accepts rice, ketchup, ramen, breakfast cereal, and most sweets. Sometimes she'll accept pickled beets. She doesn't tolerate veggies, fruits, most meat, most breads, and most restaurant food (including fast food). We have convinced her to eat other foods, but she gags every time. I suspect she has an eating disorder. She has been seeing a therapist, but I wonder if she needs to see a different therapist who specializes in eating disorders. In any case, she seems physically healthy; she runs and plays and doesn't get hurt. What's amazing to me is I was completely unaware of these kinds of disorders before she came along. I think she wants to eat veggies (because she really believes us when we say they are good for her), but her body strongly resists.
    - brandonmenc 5y ago
      I'm obviously not sure what your daughter's situation is, and it sounds a bit more extreme than mine was, so take what I'm about to say not as advice but just as a different perspective. When I was a kid, I hated the texture of most foods. They made me gag. It wasn't necessarily the taste, and I really did wish I could eat vegetables because I knew they were good for me. They even smelled and looked good. But I just couldn't get past the texture. My pediatrician was "old school" and told my parents that I was just a picky eater and not to worry about it. Did I eat dairy? Fortified cereals? Eggs and meat? If so, I'd be fine. His point was that kids just need macronutrients, and the vitamins sprayed on cereal plus a daily supplement was more than enough. Did I under eat as a result? Probably. Was I a little under weight? Yeah, but not dangerously. Honestly, it probably helped me long term because my weight has never been a problem as an adult. I'm also normal height. So, did I have an eating disorder? I mean, in a way, maybe. But it was a reaction to a sensation. I didn't have any other reason past "it feels gross in my mouth." I'm not an expert, but doesn't disordered eating need to be accompanied by "wrong thinking?" I had no other cause or motivation for my picky eating. > she seems physically healthy; she runs and plays and doesn't get hurt Again, I'm not trying to give advice because I don't know the specifics, but maybe don't worry too much unless she is actually presenting as physically unhealthy. Like, unless blood work shows some nutritional deficiency that can't be corrected with a vitamin supplement. > She has been seeing a therapist, but I wonder if she needs to see a different therapist Again, I don't know your situation, so maybe she is seeing a therapist for other reasons - but I believe that being made to see a therapist as a kid for my picky eating would have made things worse, especially since I didn't have any other problems. It may have even made me believe I had other mental problems. I just didn't like the texture of most foods. Even as a kid I realized how weird that was, and that I should be eating more foods. I just couldn't do it physically until I was older and outgrew it. Now I'm fine. I'm an adventurous eater. I eat anything and everything, and I'm quite healthy. Side note, I have adult friends who I learned were even pickier eaters than me as kids and who never really grew out of it. They're all fine, if maybe a little underweight. There's evidence suggesting that super restrictive diets can extend lifespan. Also, hey, some people are just a little bit eccentric and have weird eating habits. Maybe they don't need to be "fixed." ymmv.
- vasco 5y ago
  This is very strange to me, coming from a culture of "food is what is cooked". There was no stress around it because that's the way the world worked, sometimes you don't like the food but you still eat it. The same way you'd prefer to play all day instead of going to school. I can't fathom how one would call this traumatic, it's just part of learning to not be a spoiled brat that gets everything their way.
  - brandonmenc 5y ago
    > it's just part of learning to not be a spoiled brat that gets everything their way. I don't understand the idea that not wanting to eat food you hate makes you a "spoiled brat". Adults aren't expected to eat food they hate, and they don't. It's one of the few things kids are forced to do that has no analog in the adult world. This isn't the same thing as teaching a kid how to wake up early or do chores. Eating food you hate isn't like, a necessary life skill. If a kid is a picky eater, you're usually not cooking up an elaborate meal for them - you throw a hot dog in the microwave or pour them a bowl of cereal. That seems easier than just about any other technique for dealing with a kid who doesn't want to eat "adult" food. > I can't fathom how one would call this traumatic It's not traumatic like a car crash, but pick a food that would make you vomit and imagine a person in authority and twice your size trying to force it down your throat. This happened to me in preschool, and it sucked. At home I was allowed to eat (or not eat) in peace.
  - Avshalom 5y ago
    You don't actually know what your neighbors were cooking everyday or why, or how it affected their kids.
- thepratt 5y ago
  I'm western, but almost all of my childhood and early/mid teens was spent in Asia. I think growing up seeing all the variety of odd and stinky things made me much more willing to try; they were having it, so _I want it_. I wonder how much environment shapes how open one will be to food. Most picky eaters I've met come from places with cultures of TV-centric dinners (America, Australia, UK) opposed to family-centric ones (Japan, Germany, Singapore), which makes me wonder if there's a link or just coincidence in experience.
  - grandmczeb 5y ago
    Can’t speak for the other countries, but I’ve met plenty of German picky eaters.
  - Baeocystin 5y ago
    I am also a westerner that spent my childhood in SE Asia. Everyone ate in large, familial gatherings, and what was served was what was served. You could always fall back to plain rice if you genuinely didn't like what was available, but in practice I don't ever remember that happening. Sure, there were things you liked more than others, but sharing food with my friends was fun, and if they liked something, why wouldn't I? We were also more involved in the production/acquisition of the food of the day- go fetch some eggs from the hens, go ask the folks next door for some lemon grass, that kind of thing. I really do think being a part of the creation of the meal was good for our development. It certainly made me more interested in tasting what the adults did with the ingredients we brought them!
    - ethbr0 5y ago
      It's a great point about the broader process. Specifically, including people who aren't your immediate family (do you want them to see you refuse something?) and investing in the prior-to-plate portion (sunk cost fallacy!).
    - Avshalom 5y ago
      >and what was served was what was served. yeah but like, what makes you think that "what was served" was served with absolutely no concern for what members of the family liked or disliked.
- Pokepokalypse 5y ago
  50. Wish I hit that "clicked" moment at some point. There ARE some raw vegetables I will (and do) eat. But cook them, and they're vile to me. But more than anything, I avoid a lot of sauces, things containing vinegar (which is a LOT) - really not a lot of rhyme or reason to any of it. But boy do I hear you about the pattern of stress and anguish re: meals and food. I've often said that if I could get away with not eating - I would not eat anything. Socially - this is a huge handicap.
- gameswithgo 5y ago
  I have a friend who is in his 40s, never eats veggies, and is one of the fastest bike racers in town. As much as people go on about veggies it isn't as if you can't live without them. The nutrients exist in other things too.
  - unparagoned 5y ago
    The macros maybe, but many of the nutrients don't. You can't get the health benefits with other foods. Your friend is more likely to die at a younger age and have health problems when they are older.
- Gustomaximus 5y ago
  > Don't force your kids to eat stuff they hate. We take a different approach. 1) We explain to our kids their tastebuds are different and you have to learn to like some of the things that are healthy for you. Then we ask them to eat some to help learn and then then they can fill up on the rest. 2) We bury veg into food. It's amazing what you can grate into bolonaise sauce and similar and no-one knows. 3) Within reasonable bounds they don't have choice. We see some parents pander to their kids dislike. Of course the kids then learn they can refuse and get 'tasty' stuff. When kids have this option naturally they are more likely to push for the alternate and promote how bad veg etc is. To a degree restricting choice makes life easier. And generally I respect kids are different and our experience of not having issues around this can be luck of the draw, also I think some people simply don't want the extra initial effort to establish boundaries. And as a parent I feel it's our duty to fuel a developing body and mind with the best we can as this is a core foundation for life.

by mod 5y ago

brandonmenc 5y ago

I became an extremely picky eater suddenly around age 4. I literally didn't eat a single vegetable or fruit that wasn't an onion or tomato sauce until age 20, and my diet consisted mostly of "kid food" - hamburgers, hot dogs, breakfast cereal, milk, etc. Meanwhile, my family was eating lots of home cooked mediterranean meals. I can't count the number of times I'd be eating a hot dog while they were enjoying something like stinky artichokes. My parents cooked around me. Never forced me to eat anything I didn't like. Never insisted I "just try" a food that was going to make me gag. Shortly after I turned 20, something just clicked and I started eating everything. Now my diet is more varied than the rest of my family. Don't force your kids to eat stuff they hate. If they're not actually malnourished or obese, they'll likely turn out fine. The last thing you want to do is establish a pattern of stress and anguish re: meals and food. That probably never turns out well in the long run.

ivraatiems 5y ago
Good-sounding advice I have heard from professionals is a middle ground between your approach and the grandparent comments' "this is what the meal is" approach: Don't cook separate meals for your kids, but include at least one food in the meal the child will definitely eat, even if it's just bread, crackers, etc. (I have also heard "don't make dessert separate from the rest of the meal.") Also, if your kids are old enough, don't pre-portion the food or serve it to the kids; let them make their own plates. If they just eat bread and cheese, that's up to them - but it doesn't set up the idea that they are going to get something "special" if they don't like what's being offered. Not being a parent, I have no idea whether this works. I'd be interested to hear whether anyone has tried an approach like this. I'm sure kids can find some way to defeat it no matter how good it sounds. Personally, my biggest issue growing up was less pickiness (like a lot of kids, I went through a picky phase and emerged from it not picky), and more that my parents had the classic "finish what's on your plate" rule, which I think has definitely contributed to unhealthy eating habits in adulthood.
- hamburglar 5y ago
  One problem with parenting is that there is so much simple advice out there that “works” for some people so they become quite sure they’ve found the one true answer. We have raised both kids with the same “this is dinner” attitude and it worked wonderfully on the first kid and not at all on the second kid. It’s hubris for people to think they have figured out what works enough to tell others they should do the same.
- hathawsh 5y ago
  One of my daughters finds almost all foods revolting. She accepts rice, ketchup, ramen, breakfast cereal, and most sweets. Sometimes she'll accept pickled beets. She doesn't tolerate veggies, fruits, most meat, most breads, and most restaurant food (including fast food). We have convinced her to eat other foods, but she gags every time. I suspect she has an eating disorder. She has been seeing a therapist, but I wonder if she needs to see a different therapist who specializes in eating disorders. In any case, she seems physically healthy; she runs and plays and doesn't get hurt. What's amazing to me is I was completely unaware of these kinds of disorders before she came along. I think she wants to eat veggies (because she really believes us when we say they are good for her), but her body strongly resists.
  - brandonmenc 5y ago
    I'm obviously not sure what your daughter's situation is, and it sounds a bit more extreme than mine was, so take what I'm about to say not as advice but just as a different perspective. When I was a kid, I hated the texture of most foods. They made me gag. It wasn't necessarily the taste, and I really did wish I could eat vegetables because I knew they were good for me. They even smelled and looked good. But I just couldn't get past the texture. My pediatrician was "old school" and told my parents that I was just a picky eater and not to worry about it. Did I eat dairy? Fortified cereals? Eggs and meat? If so, I'd be fine. His point was that kids just need macronutrients, and the vitamins sprayed on cereal plus a daily supplement was more than enough. Did I under eat as a result? Probably. Was I a little under weight? Yeah, but not dangerously. Honestly, it probably helped me long term because my weight has never been a problem as an adult. I'm also normal height. So, did I have an eating disorder? I mean, in a way, maybe. But it was a reaction to a sensation. I didn't have any other reason past "it feels gross in my mouth." I'm not an expert, but doesn't disordered eating need to be accompanied by "wrong thinking?" I had no other cause or motivation for my picky eating. > she seems physically healthy; she runs and plays and doesn't get hurt Again, I'm not trying to give advice because I don't know the specifics, but maybe don't worry too much unless she is actually presenting as physically unhealthy. Like, unless blood work shows some nutritional deficiency that can't be corrected with a vitamin supplement. > She has been seeing a therapist, but I wonder if she needs to see a different therapist Again, I don't know your situation, so maybe she is seeing a therapist for other reasons - but I believe that being made to see a therapist as a kid for my picky eating would have made things worse, especially since I didn't have any other problems. It may have even made me believe I had other mental problems. I just didn't like the texture of most foods. Even as a kid I realized how weird that was, and that I should be eating more foods. I just couldn't do it physically until I was older and outgrew it. Now I'm fine. I'm an adventurous eater. I eat anything and everything, and I'm quite healthy. Side note, I have adult friends who I learned were even pickier eaters than me as kids and who never really grew out of it. They're all fine, if maybe a little underweight. There's evidence suggesting that super restrictive diets can extend lifespan. Also, hey, some people are just a little bit eccentric and have weird eating habits. Maybe they don't need to be "fixed." ymmv.
vasco 5y ago
This is very strange to me, coming from a culture of "food is what is cooked". There was no stress around it because that's the way the world worked, sometimes you don't like the food but you still eat it. The same way you'd prefer to play all day instead of going to school. I can't fathom how one would call this traumatic, it's just part of learning to not be a spoiled brat that gets everything their way.
- brandonmenc 5y ago
  > it's just part of learning to not be a spoiled brat that gets everything their way. I don't understand the idea that not wanting to eat food you hate makes you a "spoiled brat". Adults aren't expected to eat food they hate, and they don't. It's one of the few things kids are forced to do that has no analog in the adult world. This isn't the same thing as teaching a kid how to wake up early or do chores. Eating food you hate isn't like, a necessary life skill. If a kid is a picky eater, you're usually not cooking up an elaborate meal for them - you throw a hot dog in the microwave or pour them a bowl of cereal. That seems easier than just about any other technique for dealing with a kid who doesn't want to eat "adult" food. > I can't fathom how one would call this traumatic It's not traumatic like a car crash, but pick a food that would make you vomit and imagine a person in authority and twice your size trying to force it down your throat. This happened to me in preschool, and it sucked. At home I was allowed to eat (or not eat) in peace.
- Avshalom 5y ago
  You don't actually know what your neighbors were cooking everyday or why, or how it affected their kids.
thepratt 5y ago
I'm western, but almost all of my childhood and early/mid teens was spent in Asia. I think growing up seeing all the variety of odd and stinky things made me much more willing to try; they were having it, so _I want it_. I wonder how much environment shapes how open one will be to food. Most picky eaters I've met come from places with cultures of TV-centric dinners (America, Australia, UK) opposed to family-centric ones (Japan, Germany, Singapore), which makes me wonder if there's a link or just coincidence in experience.
- grandmczeb 5y ago
  Can’t speak for the other countries, but I’ve met plenty of German picky eaters.
- Baeocystin 5y ago
  I am also a westerner that spent my childhood in SE Asia. Everyone ate in large, familial gatherings, and what was served was what was served. You could always fall back to plain rice if you genuinely didn't like what was available, but in practice I don't ever remember that happening. Sure, there were things you liked more than others, but sharing food with my friends was fun, and if they liked something, why wouldn't I? We were also more involved in the production/acquisition of the food of the day- go fetch some eggs from the hens, go ask the folks next door for some lemon grass, that kind of thing. I really do think being a part of the creation of the meal was good for our development. It certainly made me more interested in tasting what the adults did with the ingredients we brought them!
  - ethbr0 5y ago
    It's a great point about the broader process. Specifically, including people who aren't your immediate family (do you want them to see you refuse something?) and investing in the prior-to-plate portion (sunk cost fallacy!).
  - Avshalom 5y ago
    >and what was served was what was served. yeah but like, what makes you think that "what was served" was served with absolutely no concern for what members of the family liked or disliked.
Pokepokalypse 5y ago
50. Wish I hit that "clicked" moment at some point. There ARE some raw vegetables I will (and do) eat. But cook them, and they're vile to me. But more than anything, I avoid a lot of sauces, things containing vinegar (which is a LOT) - really not a lot of rhyme or reason to any of it. But boy do I hear you about the pattern of stress and anguish re: meals and food. I've often said that if I could get away with not eating - I would not eat anything. Socially - this is a huge handicap.
gameswithgo 5y ago
I have a friend who is in his 40s, never eats veggies, and is one of the fastest bike racers in town. As much as people go on about veggies it isn't as if you can't live without them. The nutrients exist in other things too.
- unparagoned 5y ago
  The macros maybe, but many of the nutrients don't. You can't get the health benefits with other foods. Your friend is more likely to die at a younger age and have health problems when they are older.
Gustomaximus 5y ago
> Don't force your kids to eat stuff they hate. We take a different approach. 1) We explain to our kids their tastebuds are different and you have to learn to like some of the things that are healthy for you. Then we ask them to eat some to help learn and then then they can fill up on the rest. 2) We bury veg into food. It's amazing what you can grate into bolonaise sauce and similar and no-one knows. 3) Within reasonable bounds they don't have choice. We see some parents pander to their kids dislike. Of course the kids then learn they can refuse and get 'tasty' stuff. When kids have this option naturally they are more likely to push for the alternate and promote how bad veg etc is. To a degree restricting choice makes life easier. And generally I respect kids are different and our experience of not having issues around this can be luck of the draw, also I think some people simply don't want the extra initial effort to establish boundaries. And as a parent I feel it's our duty to fuel a developing body and mind with the best we can as this is a core foundation for life.