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I used to think that but its important to note what they wanted to do democratically: more communism. The winning regime wanted to move away from many marxist
by vmception 5y ago
I used to think that but its important to note what they wanted to do democratically: more communism.
The winning regime wanted to move away from many marxist ideas, and they did, with liberalization of the markets and private ownership. Although they retain the name “Communist Party” and they teach and exalt marxist ideals in their schools, they just teach that whatever the communist party is currently doing is marxist.
The protestors in 1989 saw and predicted this lack of accountability and wanted to move towards the promised land of communism that no country has ever done, the promise which keeps enamoring new young people in every generation.
The state said no and had also concluded those ideals don't make sense, and moved towards state capitalism which has been extremely successful with unprecedented growth for any country, but doubly true for one with such a large population.
We would likely have worse relations with a democratic actually communist china.
- BobbyJo 5y agoI have to disagree. Democracies are generally better at course correction over long time horizons. I think a communist democracy would likely do what capitalist democracies do: economically drift toward center.
- vmception 5y agoCould be center like Vietnam, or shut in, destitute and hostile like North Korea, but most likely broken apart with some hostile regions like the Soviet Union None of these are democracies, just greater pursuit of communism which is what the protestors wanted
- BobbyJo 5y agoNorth Korea and the Soviet Union don't qualify as democracies...
- vmception 5y agoNone of those examples are democracies, just greater pursuit of communism which is what the protestors wanted
- BobbyJo 5y agoThe point I was aiming at was that the benefits of democracy outweigh the blights of communism over the long term. You can argue whether or not that is the case, but North Korea and the USSR aren't examples to the contrary.
- vmception 5y agoAre there any examples that support your thoughts? A transition out of authoritarian single party communist rule to democratic [single or multi party] communist rule?
- BobbyJo 5y agoAn example to support my thought would be a communist democracies becoming more capitalist over time. Unfortunately I believe communist regimes have been predominantly authoritarian, so I don't have any good examples. I believe there aren't any good counter examples either tho, so it's anyone's guess.
- pjc50 5y agoThis is possibly the most Operation Condor thing I've ever seen on here, the idea that it would be bad for China to have democracy and a less authoritarian, more accountable government .. because it would be less capitalist? Needs a lot more evidence and moral support than fits in a hn post. Also says some pretty terrible things about capitalism that it needs to be defended by crushing protests with tanks. And this is supposed to be an argument in its favor?
- vmception 5y agoThat's not what I said at all. I said it would be bad for US, which was the only opinion added to the post. There are no arguments for anything as I only wrote about the accuracy of what occurred. Maybe somebody else will entertain the conversation you want to have though.