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> Which is not remotely representative of any human diet. I know many humans who have diets not far off from that. Maybe deep fried chicken tenders as a subst

> Which is not remotely representative of any human diet. I know many humans who have diets not far off from that. Maybe deep fried chicken tenders as a substitute for hamburgers. Granted, most of them eat ketchup, which is a serving of vegetables in some states. Seriously though, this problem is more common that I think a lot may realize. Something about a high-sugar, high-salt, fast food diet has the long-term effect of destroying peoples' ability to eat other foods. I've seen kids grow up on fast food who find the idea any green vegetable completely revolting.

ethbr0 5y ago
Of all the things my mother did for me, the one I'm second most grateful for was not catering to my childish tastes. I see some of my friends not far beyond chicken fingers for every meal and shudder... So thanks, Mom! You were right. Here's to "Dinner is what I cooked, and if you want something else then breakfast is in 12 hours."
- mod 5y ago
  My best friend and his wife are the best parents I've ever seen in practice, in many ways. Quality time, attention, simulating activities etc. They're both schoolteachers. BUT! Their kids eat 3 meals for dinner: pizza, chicken nuggets with French fries, or easy Mac. For lunch they have pb&j, for breakfast eggs or cereal. Chips and candy for snacks. Throw in some applesauce you suck out of little pouches. That's it. I'm pretty much appalled. The kids seem healthy, although I'm not an expert. But man, they're missing out on literally all the good stuff. I hope they come around in a couple years. I haven't asked them their plan or anything. I'm firmly in the camp of not cooking around kids unless they really hate one particular thing, or it's too spicy perhaps, or an allergy.
  - brandonmenc 5y ago
    I became an extremely picky eater suddenly around age 4. I literally didn't eat a single vegetable or fruit that wasn't an onion or tomato sauce until age 20, and my diet consisted mostly of "kid food" - hamburgers, hot dogs, breakfast cereal, milk, etc. Meanwhile, my family was eating lots of home cooked mediterranean meals. I can't count the number of times I'd be eating a hot dog while they were enjoying something like stinky artichokes. My parents cooked around me. Never forced me to eat anything I didn't like. Never insisted I "just try" a food that was going to make me gag. Shortly after I turned 20, something just clicked and I started eating everything. Now my diet is more varied than the rest of my family. Don't force your kids to eat stuff they hate. If they're not actually malnourished or obese, they'll likely turn out fine. The last thing you want to do is establish a pattern of stress and anguish re: meals and food. That probably never turns out well in the long run.
    - ivraatiems 5y ago
      Good-sounding advice I have heard from professionals is a middle ground between your approach and the grandparent comments' "this is what the meal is" approach: Don't cook separate meals for your kids, but include at least one food in the meal the child will definitely eat, even if it's just bread, crackers, etc. (I have also heard "don't make dessert separate from the rest of the meal.") Also, if your kids are old enough, don't pre-portion the food or serve it to the kids; let them make their own plates. If they just eat bread and cheese, that's up to them - but it doesn't set up the idea that they are going to get something "special" if they don't like what's being offered. Not being a parent, I have no idea whether this works. I'd be interested to hear whether anyone has tried an approach like this. I'm sure kids can find some way to defeat it no matter how good it sounds. Personally, my biggest issue growing up was less pickiness (like a lot of kids, I went through a picky phase and emerged from it not picky), and more that my parents had the classic "finish what's on your plate" rule, which I think has definitely contributed to unhealthy eating habits in adulthood.
      - hamburglar 5y ago
        One problem with parenting is that there is so much simple advice out there that “works” for some people so they become quite sure they’ve found the one true answer. We have raised both kids with the same “this is dinner” attitude and it worked wonderfully on the first kid and not at all on the second kid. It’s hubris for people to think they have figured out what works enough to tell others they should do the same.
      - hathawsh 5y ago
        One of my daughters finds almost all foods revolting. She accepts rice, ketchup, ramen, breakfast cereal, and most sweets. Sometimes she'll accept pickled beets. She doesn't tolerate veggies, fruits, most meat, most breads, and most restaurant food (including fast food). We have convinced her to eat other foods, but she gags every time. I suspect she has an eating disorder. She has been seeing a therapist, but I wonder if she needs to see a different therapist who specializes in eating disorders. In any case, she seems physically healthy; she runs and plays and doesn't get hurt. What's amazing to me is I was completely unaware of these kinds of disorders before she came along. I think she wants to eat veggies (because she really believes us when we say they are good for her), but her body strongly resists.
- phs318u 5y ago
  Ha! Are we siblings? My mum's line was "Dinner is what I cooked and if you don't eat it now you can have it for breakfast served cold." And she meant it.
dragontamer 5y ago
> I know many humans who have diets not far off from that. The minute you add Tomatoes + Cheese (found in pizza), you're suddenly fixing a major vitamin A deficiency (that Hamburgers / Potatoes lack). Like, at least round out the meal with other ultraprocessed foods if you want to prove something. ----------- What causes bone deficiency? Well, a lack of calcium (also found in cheese) and Vitamin D (needed to process calcium more efficiently), which potatoes also lack. Pizza, Tacos, and Ice Cream would fix that, no joke, if I'm thinking about the "worst foods" that still hit those vitamins.
- cheese_goddess 5y ago
  Remember that pizza cheese is often not cheese, but a substitute called Analogue Pizza Cheese, made of casein (the protein in milk), starch, vegetable fats, emulsifiers, stabilisers, preservatives, colourings and flavourings. Burger cheese is either the same stuff or "processed cheese" which means scraps of cheese with the same additives. There's very little in the way of nutrition in any of this. I'm not sure about the tomato paste either, but if the majority of the paste is the additives and the tomatoes have been heat treated and salted and sugar'd to an inch of their lives, you're not getting anything but calories, like mywittiname's comment suggests. That's something to keep in mind with any processed foods: many of the materials in them are not there to provide nutrition, and don't.
  - dragontamer 5y ago
    The majority of Pizzas in the USA use mozzarella from Leprino Foods. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leprino_Foods https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leprino_Foods > Leprino supplies cheese to 85% of the pizza market, including Pizza Hut, Domino's, Little Caesars, Papa John's, Hungry Howie's, Tombstone, Tony's, Jack's, and Digiorno.
- mywittyname 5y ago
  So I looked up the Vitamin A contents of Heinz ketchup and Kraft Singles (the highly processed "cheese" used in fast food cheeseburgers). Each say 2% RDV per serving, that's roughly 20mcg per serving. I'm not sure below what level constitutes deficiency. Perhaps that small amount is enough.
wyager 5y ago
Most green vegetables have barely any nutritive content. Babies naturally find them disgusting as well - this is an example of instinctive flavor preference actually working correctly. The problem is that evolved palatability is not well-calibrated for things like widely available sugars (including starches)
- cheese_goddess 5y ago
  To be nitpicky, startch is a polysaccharide, i.e. a long chain of sugars. Although it's ultimately made of glucouse, polysaccharides are normally not considered sugars, perhaps partly because they're usually not sweet, but also because of their complexity that sets them apart from their constituent sugars. So a bit like we don't call a house "brick".
- chrisco255 5y ago
  You're getting downvoted, but this is correct. Most green veggies have high oxalates and high phytic acid (antinutrients) that actively prevent the absorption of certain nutrients. For example, Spinach has calcium oxalate that prevents the absorption of calcium (it binds to calcium instead and passes through your digestive system). Unless those veggies are soaked & boiled, fermented, or sprouted, chances are they're adding little nutritional value to your diet and can even cause anemia or other issues if you're just eating them raw.
  - klipt 5y ago
    This seems like a good argument for eating varying things over the day. E.g. you don't have to have greens with your breakfast, but it's probably good to eat them every so often for fiber. And yes fermented greens like sauerkraut or kimchi may be better in many ways.
    - soperj 5y ago
      If you don't have problems with constipation, what's the point of fiber?
SomewhatLikely 5y ago
The hamburger in the study had tomatoes and lettuce (but they explicitly pointed out no pickles or onions). So there was some vegetable material there already.
gameswithgo 5y ago
It isn't a question of whether eating only burgers, fries, and soda is a common problem or not. It is a question of a paper going on about Ultra Processed Foods as if that is a well defined thing, when it should have said "eating only a burger, fries, and soda causes rats problems"

ethbr0 5y ago

Of all the things my mother did for me, the one I'm second most grateful for was not catering to my childish tastes. I see some of my friends not far beyond chicken fingers for every meal and shudder... So thanks, Mom! You were right. Here's to "Dinner is what I cooked, and if you want something else then breakfast is in 12 hours."

mod 5y ago
My best friend and his wife are the best parents I've ever seen in practice, in many ways. Quality time, attention, simulating activities etc. They're both schoolteachers. BUT! Their kids eat 3 meals for dinner: pizza, chicken nuggets with French fries, or easy Mac. For lunch they have pb&j, for breakfast eggs or cereal. Chips and candy for snacks. Throw in some applesauce you suck out of little pouches. That's it. I'm pretty much appalled. The kids seem healthy, although I'm not an expert. But man, they're missing out on literally all the good stuff. I hope they come around in a couple years. I haven't asked them their plan or anything. I'm firmly in the camp of not cooking around kids unless they really hate one particular thing, or it's too spicy perhaps, or an allergy.
- brandonmenc 5y ago
  I became an extremely picky eater suddenly around age 4. I literally didn't eat a single vegetable or fruit that wasn't an onion or tomato sauce until age 20, and my diet consisted mostly of "kid food" - hamburgers, hot dogs, breakfast cereal, milk, etc. Meanwhile, my family was eating lots of home cooked mediterranean meals. I can't count the number of times I'd be eating a hot dog while they were enjoying something like stinky artichokes. My parents cooked around me. Never forced me to eat anything I didn't like. Never insisted I "just try" a food that was going to make me gag. Shortly after I turned 20, something just clicked and I started eating everything. Now my diet is more varied than the rest of my family. Don't force your kids to eat stuff they hate. If they're not actually malnourished or obese, they'll likely turn out fine. The last thing you want to do is establish a pattern of stress and anguish re: meals and food. That probably never turns out well in the long run.
  - ivraatiems 5y ago
    Good-sounding advice I have heard from professionals is a middle ground between your approach and the grandparent comments' "this is what the meal is" approach: Don't cook separate meals for your kids, but include at least one food in the meal the child will definitely eat, even if it's just bread, crackers, etc. (I have also heard "don't make dessert separate from the rest of the meal.") Also, if your kids are old enough, don't pre-portion the food or serve it to the kids; let them make their own plates. If they just eat bread and cheese, that's up to them - but it doesn't set up the idea that they are going to get something "special" if they don't like what's being offered. Not being a parent, I have no idea whether this works. I'd be interested to hear whether anyone has tried an approach like this. I'm sure kids can find some way to defeat it no matter how good it sounds. Personally, my biggest issue growing up was less pickiness (like a lot of kids, I went through a picky phase and emerged from it not picky), and more that my parents had the classic "finish what's on your plate" rule, which I think has definitely contributed to unhealthy eating habits in adulthood.
    - hamburglar 5y ago
      One problem with parenting is that there is so much simple advice out there that “works” for some people so they become quite sure they’ve found the one true answer. We have raised both kids with the same “this is dinner” attitude and it worked wonderfully on the first kid and not at all on the second kid. It’s hubris for people to think they have figured out what works enough to tell others they should do the same.
    - hathawsh 5y ago
      One of my daughters finds almost all foods revolting. She accepts rice, ketchup, ramen, breakfast cereal, and most sweets. Sometimes she'll accept pickled beets. She doesn't tolerate veggies, fruits, most meat, most breads, and most restaurant food (including fast food). We have convinced her to eat other foods, but she gags every time. I suspect she has an eating disorder. She has been seeing a therapist, but I wonder if she needs to see a different therapist who specializes in eating disorders. In any case, she seems physically healthy; she runs and plays and doesn't get hurt. What's amazing to me is I was completely unaware of these kinds of disorders before she came along. I think she wants to eat veggies (because she really believes us when we say they are good for her), but her body strongly resists.
phs318u 5y ago
Ha! Are we siblings? My mum's line was "Dinner is what I cooked and if you don't eat it now you can have it for breakfast served cold." And she meant it.

dragontamer 5y ago

> I know many humans who have diets not far off from that. The minute you add Tomatoes + Cheese (found in pizza), you're suddenly fixing a major vitamin A deficiency (that Hamburgers / Potatoes lack). Like, at least round out the meal with other ultraprocessed foods if you want to prove something. ----------- What causes bone deficiency? Well, a lack of calcium (also found in cheese) and Vitamin D (needed to process calcium more efficiently), which potatoes also lack. Pizza, Tacos, and Ice Cream would fix that, no joke, if I'm thinking about the "worst foods" that still hit those vitamins.

cheese_goddess 5y ago
Remember that pizza cheese is often not cheese, but a substitute called Analogue Pizza Cheese, made of casein (the protein in milk), starch, vegetable fats, emulsifiers, stabilisers, preservatives, colourings and flavourings. Burger cheese is either the same stuff or "processed cheese" which means scraps of cheese with the same additives. There's very little in the way of nutrition in any of this. I'm not sure about the tomato paste either, but if the majority of the paste is the additives and the tomatoes have been heat treated and salted and sugar'd to an inch of their lives, you're not getting anything but calories, like mywittiname's comment suggests. That's something to keep in mind with any processed foods: many of the materials in them are not there to provide nutrition, and don't.
- dragontamer 5y ago
  The majority of Pizzas in the USA use mozzarella from Leprino Foods. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leprino_Foods https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leprino_Foods > Leprino supplies cheese to 85% of the pizza market, including Pizza Hut, Domino's, Little Caesars, Papa John's, Hungry Howie's, Tombstone, Tony's, Jack's, and Digiorno.
mywittyname 5y ago
So I looked up the Vitamin A contents of Heinz ketchup and Kraft Singles (the highly processed "cheese" used in fast food cheeseburgers). Each say 2% RDV per serving, that's roughly 20mcg per serving. I'm not sure below what level constitutes deficiency. Perhaps that small amount is enough.

wyager 5y ago

Most green vegetables have barely any nutritive content. Babies naturally find them disgusting as well - this is an example of instinctive flavor preference actually working correctly. The problem is that evolved palatability is not well-calibrated for things like widely available sugars (including starches)

cheese_goddess 5y ago
To be nitpicky, startch is a polysaccharide, i.e. a long chain of sugars. Although it's ultimately made of glucouse, polysaccharides are normally not considered sugars, perhaps partly because they're usually not sweet, but also because of their complexity that sets them apart from their constituent sugars. So a bit like we don't call a house "brick".
chrisco255 5y ago
You're getting downvoted, but this is correct. Most green veggies have high oxalates and high phytic acid (antinutrients) that actively prevent the absorption of certain nutrients. For example, Spinach has calcium oxalate that prevents the absorption of calcium (it binds to calcium instead and passes through your digestive system). Unless those veggies are soaked & boiled, fermented, or sprouted, chances are they're adding little nutritional value to your diet and can even cause anemia or other issues if you're just eating them raw.
- klipt 5y ago
  This seems like a good argument for eating varying things over the day. E.g. you don't have to have greens with your breakfast, but it's probably good to eat them every so often for fiber. And yes fermented greens like sauerkraut or kimchi may be better in many ways.
  - soperj 5y ago
    If you don't have problems with constipation, what's the point of fiber?

SomewhatLikely 5y ago

The hamburger in the study had tomatoes and lettuce (but they explicitly pointed out no pickles or onions). So there was some vegetable material there already.

gameswithgo 5y ago

It isn't a question of whether eating only burgers, fries, and soda is a common problem or not. It is a question of a paper going on about Ultra Processed Foods as if that is a well defined thing, when it should have said "eating only a burger, fries, and soda causes rats problems"