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>I don't think that means we don't need privacy. It absolutely has value. I never heard any convincing argument about why privacy has value. >but that doesn'

by matz1 5y ago

>I don't think that means we don't need privacy. It absolutely has value. I never heard any convincing argument about why privacy has value. >but that doesn't mean we should allow everything to be collected. Why ?

deep-root 5y ago
Perhaps you'd like some privacy to surprise a significant other with your purchase, rather than it show up on their Venmo feed in real-time.
- matz1 5y ago
  Good example but there so much information a person can keep up with so surprise can still possible.
wyre 5y ago
People spend money on privacy. This gives it value. I don’t know anyone that would want to spend money on a hotel if there was a security camera in the room. I would get the more expensive room without the camera, probably go to a different hotel. Doctor and patient confidentiality is implicitly understood. Do you think doctors should be able to tell advertisers what their patients are going through. Maybe your own individual privacy doesn’t have value to you, and that’s okay, but other people value their privacy, and these corps profiting off data definitely find value in lack of privacy.
- matz1 5y ago
  >I don’t know anyone that would want to spend money on a hotel if there was a security camera in the room why do you think is that ? >Do you think doctors should be able to tell advertisers what their patients are going through Why do you think they shouldn't ? >these corps profiting off data definitely find value in lack of privacy. Yes of course there is value in lack of privacy, but what is value in privacy ?
- couchridr 5y ago
  The basic problem is that people undervalue data about themselves. They don’t imagine the kinds of conclusions that can be made, or the consequences. It’s been more than a decade, but I was impressed by this research from Allessandro Acquisti that suggested people valued their data only in the pennies. When 25 Cents is too much: An Experiment on Willingness-To-Sell and Willingness-To-Protect Personal Information, Jens Grossklags, Alessandro Acquisti, Workshop on the Economics of Information Security (WEIS), 2007
fuckyouriotshit 5y ago
> I never heard any convincing argument about why privacy has value. You have either _never_ had to keep a secret (which I highly doubt, unless you happen to be a literal child) or you simply aren't arguing in good faith. Assuming that you are arguing in good faith, let's consider a potential reason why someone might value their privacy: Some people are born attracted to the same-sex (gay, lesbian, bi, pan, etc.). There are some countries where being gay is a criminal offense; there are even some countries where you can face the death penalty for this. [1] If a gay person lives in one of those countries, don't they have a right to keep this fact about themselves private simply in order to protect themselves? Or does their life have less value than the profit that can be generated by the "Data Economy"? [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_for_homosexuality https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_for_homosex...
- TchoBeer 5y ago
  Obviously the problem is laws that outlaw homosexuality and not a lack of privacy.
  - path2power 5y ago
    To the people whose lives are at stake, what difference does it make?
    - TchoBeer 5y ago
      None, but if we're looking at this situation (where the government is finding secret homosexuals and prosecuting them) and asking "what policies ought we enact to fix this" if your answer is "better privacy" that seems like it's looking at the wrong problem.
      - shkkmo 5y ago
        You are assuming that perfect and fair governance is a reasonably achievable state. Reality begs to differ. In reality, there are people in the USA who are in the closet or of fear of persecution by their communities. Privacy provides a fundemental protection from persecution by your government. This is precisely why the constitution includes specific privacy protections. So while we should fight governments that persecute homosexuality, we also need to protect at least some aspects of privacy to keep protections for the next persecuted group.

by matz1 5y ago

deep-root 5y ago

Perhaps you'd like some privacy to surprise a significant other with your purchase, rather than it show up on their Venmo feed in real-time.

matz1 5y ago
Good example but there so much information a person can keep up with so surprise can still possible.

wyre 5y ago

People spend money on privacy. This gives it value. I don’t know anyone that would want to spend money on a hotel if there was a security camera in the room. I would get the more expensive room without the camera, probably go to a different hotel. Doctor and patient confidentiality is implicitly understood. Do you think doctors should be able to tell advertisers what their patients are going through. Maybe your own individual privacy doesn’t have value to you, and that’s okay, but other people value their privacy, and these corps profiting off data definitely find value in lack of privacy.

matz1 5y ago
>I don’t know anyone that would want to spend money on a hotel if there was a security camera in the room why do you think is that ? >Do you think doctors should be able to tell advertisers what their patients are going through Why do you think they shouldn't ? >these corps profiting off data definitely find value in lack of privacy. Yes of course there is value in lack of privacy, but what is value in privacy ?
couchridr 5y ago
The basic problem is that people undervalue data about themselves. They don’t imagine the kinds of conclusions that can be made, or the consequences. It’s been more than a decade, but I was impressed by this research from Allessandro Acquisti that suggested people valued their data only in the pennies. When 25 Cents is too much: An Experiment on Willingness-To-Sell and Willingness-To-Protect Personal Information, Jens Grossklags, Alessandro Acquisti, Workshop on the Economics of Information Security (WEIS), 2007

fuckyouriotshit 5y ago

> I never heard any convincing argument about why privacy has value. You have either _never_ had to keep a secret (which I highly doubt, unless you happen to be a literal child) or you simply aren't arguing in good faith. Assuming that you are arguing in good faith, let's consider a potential reason why someone might value their privacy: Some people are born attracted to the same-sex (gay, lesbian, bi, pan, etc.). There are some countries where being gay is a criminal offense; there are even some countries where you can face the death penalty for this. [1] If a gay person lives in one of those countries, don't they have a right to keep this fact about themselves private simply in order to protect themselves? Or does their life have less value than the profit that can be generated by the "Data Economy"? [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_for_homosexuality https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_for_homosex...

TchoBeer 5y ago
Obviously the problem is laws that outlaw homosexuality and not a lack of privacy.
- path2power 5y ago
  To the people whose lives are at stake, what difference does it make?
  - TchoBeer 5y ago
    None, but if we're looking at this situation (where the government is finding secret homosexuals and prosecuting them) and asking "what policies ought we enact to fix this" if your answer is "better privacy" that seems like it's looking at the wrong problem.
    - shkkmo 5y ago
      You are assuming that perfect and fair governance is a reasonably achievable state. Reality begs to differ. In reality, there are people in the USA who are in the closet or of fear of persecution by their communities. Privacy provides a fundemental protection from persecution by your government. This is precisely why the constitution includes specific privacy protections. So while we should fight governments that persecute homosexuality, we also need to protect at least some aspects of privacy to keep protections for the next persecuted group.