8 ms·

Here you go: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27394925 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27394925 [Flagged] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=273950

Here you go: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27394925 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27394925 [Flagged] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27395028 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27395028 [Marked as dupe] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27394943 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27394943 [Currently on page 2]

ilamont 5y ago
dang 27 minutes ago [–] [flagged] on submissions nearly always means users flagged it. This is in the FAQ: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html#flag https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html#flag https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27397158 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27397158
- jxramos 5y ago
  ah I never knew about that distinction. Good to know.
- GauntletWizard 5y ago
  Right. Why haven't those users been banned, and the article restored? Dang is actually quite effective as and administrator, but this seems pretty clear-cut abuse of the flagging system. I don't expect perfection, dang might have not been aware of it yet, but I do expect that some action will be taken on hot-button topics when surfaced.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - floatingatoll 5y ago
    dang says elsethread, paraphrased, 'we evaluated that flagged post and figured it was probably legitimately flagged, but after users contacted us^ to say it should be unflagged, so we listened to them and unflagged it'. Good intentions often lead to bad outcomes. The mods have the best possible (and still imperfect) judgement of all of us, and they misread the circumstances, same as those users who flagged it. So they'd have to ban themselves right along with everyone else, which would be the end of HN. That the actions of other users ended up being reversed is no excuse to demand that they be banned, especially on topics where agreement will never be reached^^ by the community — such as Apple, China, or Firefox. Please be more cautious about demanding bans of those whose actions result in disagreeable outcomes, even if you doubt their intentions. ^ Using a post or comment is a terribly inefficient way to go about doing this, but it certainly does tend to produce maximum-drama results. I don't think anyone should be banned for taking that approach — maybe they didn't realize the Contact link exists or reaches the mods! — but I'm exhausted of otherwise good-standing and high-karma users using posts and comments to bring things to their attention. I'm also glad to see the thread and discussion here, which contradicts my own viewpoint. I have no easy resolution for that cognitive dissonance. ^^ Please don't call for me to be banned if you disagree with my reply. However, if you feel I've violated the guidelines in some way, I do of course encourage you to let the mods know using the footer Contact link.
    - a1369209993 5y ago
      > maybe they didn't realize the Contact link exists or reaches the mods! Actually, the Contact link doesn't exist or reach the mods: $ dig mx ycombinator.com [...] ycombinator.com.299 IN MX 10 aspmx.l.google.com. [...] $ telnet aspmx.l.google.com 25 Trying 142.250.141.27... [wait a minute or two] HELO example.com [typed] [wait a minute or two] ^C (The other MX results behave similarly.)
      - floatingatoll 5y ago
        EDIT: HN's contact email is working fine; the evidence presented was known to be invalid before it was posted and used in bad faith to bait the conversation. It worked fine when I emailed them yesterday using a non-Gmail email client and server. You’re suggesting that all email for YCombinator is down (or, worse, some/all of Google Apps) so that seems worth proving out. I checked and there aren’t any posts today about Gmail or Gapps being down. Diagnostic superpowers, activate! Are you getting a bounce/timeout from a real email client through a real SMTP server? I know some mail servers I used to operate would reject your telnet test as shown, so I’m not really surprised it failed at a Google SMTP endpoint. Are you attempting to email them using Gmail, using a third-party commercial service, via a cloud/datacenter-hosted personal SMTP server, or a home internet connection SMTP server? If the SMTP server is under your control, is TLS correctly configured on it to modern standards? Do your server’s A/PTR records match the hostname it’s configured to use?
        a1369209993 5y ago
        > You're suggesting that all email for YCombinator is down No, I'm suggesting that their mail server is not reachable over unencrypted SMTP from random probably-residential IP addresses. This is fairly typical IME, and is why > Using a post or comment is a terribly inefficient way to go about doing this [...] I'm exhausted of otherwise good-standing and high-karma users using posts and comments to bring things to their attention. > maybe they didn't realize the Contact link exists or reaches the mods is a non-sequitor. The point of comments as reporting medium is that they can be made via the same channel that was used to read the (offending or inaccurately-noted-as-offending) posts in the first place.
- partiallypro 5y ago
  The FAQs also say a mod can remove the flag if it's unfair...which it is. Yet it hasn't been removed.
  - boomboomsubban 5y ago
    They now would be tagged as [dupe] and still removed.
  - dang 5y ago
    Ok, I've removed it. Now people will accuse us of rewriting history, but that's ok - one eventually makes peace with the fact that there's no way to win.
    - SturgeonsLaw 5y ago
      danged if you do, danged if you don't
      - dang 5y ago
        The truth is that the pig partly likes it.
        jjgreen 5y ago
        Had to look that up, glad I did https://quoteinvestigator.com/2017/07/08/pig/ https://quoteinvestigator.com/2017/07/08/pig/
    - geoduck14 5y ago
      Yeah, but at least you rewrote it to something I agree with
- dredmorbius 5y ago
  Then un-flag it, dang. You explained to me (and HN) recently that posts which are critical of HN itself are moderated less, not more, than others. The same standard should apply to posts in which a greatly disadvantaged group are standing up to a vastly superior power, all else being equal (credibility, tactics, nature of grievance, etc.) As with content concerning the events of June 4, 1989, in Tiananmen Square, China. Dupes should be merged. Valid freestanding posts should be unflagged.
  - dang 5y ago
    I've unflagged it. Please see https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27399369 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27399369. Btw I'm not necessarily agreeing that those were bad flags; but in cases like this, the community has the final say.
    - dredmorbius 5y ago
      Thanks, apprciated.

ilamont 5y ago

dang 27 minutes ago [–] [flagged] on submissions nearly always means users flagged it. This is in the FAQ: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html#flag https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html#flag https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27397158 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27397158

jxramos 5y ago
ah I never knew about that distinction. Good to know.
GauntletWizard 5y ago
Right. Why haven't those users been banned, and the article restored? Dang is actually quite effective as and administrator, but this seems pretty clear-cut abuse of the flagging system. I don't expect perfection, dang might have not been aware of it yet, but I do expect that some action will be taken on hot-button topics when surfaced.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- floatingatoll 5y ago
  dang says elsethread, paraphrased, 'we evaluated that flagged post and figured it was probably legitimately flagged, but after users contacted us^ to say it should be unflagged, so we listened to them and unflagged it'. Good intentions often lead to bad outcomes. The mods have the best possible (and still imperfect) judgement of all of us, and they misread the circumstances, same as those users who flagged it. So they'd have to ban themselves right along with everyone else, which would be the end of HN. That the actions of other users ended up being reversed is no excuse to demand that they be banned, especially on topics where agreement will never be reached^^ by the community — such as Apple, China, or Firefox. Please be more cautious about demanding bans of those whose actions result in disagreeable outcomes, even if you doubt their intentions. ^ Using a post or comment is a terribly inefficient way to go about doing this, but it certainly does tend to produce maximum-drama results. I don't think anyone should be banned for taking that approach — maybe they didn't realize the Contact link exists or reaches the mods! — but I'm exhausted of otherwise good-standing and high-karma users using posts and comments to bring things to their attention. I'm also glad to see the thread and discussion here, which contradicts my own viewpoint. I have no easy resolution for that cognitive dissonance. ^^ Please don't call for me to be banned if you disagree with my reply. However, if you feel I've violated the guidelines in some way, I do of course encourage you to let the mods know using the footer Contact link.
  - a1369209993 5y ago
    > maybe they didn't realize the Contact link exists or reaches the mods! Actually, the Contact link doesn't exist or reach the mods: $ dig mx ycombinator.com [...] ycombinator.com.299 IN MX 10 aspmx.l.google.com. [...] $ telnet aspmx.l.google.com 25 Trying 142.250.141.27... [wait a minute or two] HELO example.com [typed] [wait a minute or two] ^C (The other MX results behave similarly.)
    - floatingatoll 5y ago
      EDIT: HN's contact email is working fine; the evidence presented was known to be invalid before it was posted and used in bad faith to bait the conversation. It worked fine when I emailed them yesterday using a non-Gmail email client and server. You’re suggesting that all email for YCombinator is down (or, worse, some/all of Google Apps) so that seems worth proving out. I checked and there aren’t any posts today about Gmail or Gapps being down. Diagnostic superpowers, activate! Are you getting a bounce/timeout from a real email client through a real SMTP server? I know some mail servers I used to operate would reject your telnet test as shown, so I’m not really surprised it failed at a Google SMTP endpoint. Are you attempting to email them using Gmail, using a third-party commercial service, via a cloud/datacenter-hosted personal SMTP server, or a home internet connection SMTP server? If the SMTP server is under your control, is TLS correctly configured on it to modern standards? Do your server’s A/PTR records match the hostname it’s configured to use?
      - a1369209993 5y ago
        > You're suggesting that all email for YCombinator is down No, I'm suggesting that their mail server is not reachable over unencrypted SMTP from random probably-residential IP addresses. This is fairly typical IME, and is why > Using a post or comment is a terribly inefficient way to go about doing this [...] I'm exhausted of otherwise good-standing and high-karma users using posts and comments to bring things to their attention. > maybe they didn't realize the Contact link exists or reaches the mods is a non-sequitor. The point of comments as reporting medium is that they can be made via the same channel that was used to read the (offending or inaccurately-noted-as-offending) posts in the first place.
partiallypro 5y ago
The FAQs also say a mod can remove the flag if it's unfair...which it is. Yet it hasn't been removed.
- boomboomsubban 5y ago
  They now would be tagged as [dupe] and still removed.
- dang 5y ago
  Ok, I've removed it. Now people will accuse us of rewriting history, but that's ok - one eventually makes peace with the fact that there's no way to win.
  - SturgeonsLaw 5y ago
    danged if you do, danged if you don't
    - dang 5y ago
      The truth is that the pig partly likes it.
      - jjgreen 5y ago
        Had to look that up, glad I did https://quoteinvestigator.com/2017/07/08/pig/ https://quoteinvestigator.com/2017/07/08/pig/
  - geoduck14 5y ago
    Yeah, but at least you rewrote it to something I agree with
dredmorbius 5y ago
Then un-flag it, dang. You explained to me (and HN) recently that posts which are critical of HN itself are moderated less, not more, than others. The same standard should apply to posts in which a greatly disadvantaged group are standing up to a vastly superior power, all else being equal (credibility, tactics, nature of grievance, etc.) As with content concerning the events of June 4, 1989, in Tiananmen Square, China. Dupes should be merged. Valid freestanding posts should be unflagged.
- dang 5y ago
  I've unflagged it. Please see https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27399369 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27399369. Btw I'm not necessarily agreeing that those were bad flags; but in cases like this, the community has the final say.
  - dredmorbius 5y ago
    Thanks, apprciated.