7 ms·

From reading this list, I can deduce OP just made up most of them, because over half of them contains details that are total BS. Also I happen to think we'd be

by slver 5y ago

From reading this list, I can deduce OP just made up most of them, because over half of them contains details that are total BS. Also I happen to think we'd be a better society if we all knew everything about each other. Instead of discouraging companies from analyzing us, encourage them to publish everything all the time. Let governments join in on the fun. Everyone should be tracking an analyzing everyone else. Solves the issue with companies manipulating us to sell our data, because if they publish it they can't sell it. Solves the ransomware problem as well. Publish everything, no privacy for anyone. You can't blackmail someone for data everyone has. I wanna know what you think right now. I'm not asking you to tell me, I'll scan your brain instead. And I'll know what your dream last night was. And you'll know the same for me as well. That's the future, prove me wrong.

shkkmo 5y ago
The worst thing about the information economy of today is absolutely the inequality of access. We would be better off if everything that is collected was public. I don't think that means we don't need privacy. It absolutely has value. The problem is when privacy is only available to the rich and powerful, while the details about the rest of us are hoarded and used by the very same powerful people who pay such a premium for their privacy. If we allow the collection of information, that information should absolutely be public, but that doesn't mean we should allow everything to be collected.
- matz1 5y ago
  >I don't think that means we don't need privacy. It absolutely has value. I never heard any convincing argument about why privacy has value. >but that doesn't mean we should allow everything to be collected. Why ?
  - deep-root 5y ago
    Perhaps you'd like some privacy to surprise a significant other with your purchase, rather than it show up on their Venmo feed in real-time.
    - matz1 5y ago
      Good example but there so much information a person can keep up with so surprise can still possible.
  - wyre 5y ago
    People spend money on privacy. This gives it value. I don’t know anyone that would want to spend money on a hotel if there was a security camera in the room. I would get the more expensive room without the camera, probably go to a different hotel. Doctor and patient confidentiality is implicitly understood. Do you think doctors should be able to tell advertisers what their patients are going through. Maybe your own individual privacy doesn’t have value to you, and that’s okay, but other people value their privacy, and these corps profiting off data definitely find value in lack of privacy.
    - matz1 5y ago
      >I don’t know anyone that would want to spend money on a hotel if there was a security camera in the room why do you think is that ? >Do you think doctors should be able to tell advertisers what their patients are going through Why do you think they shouldn't ? >these corps profiting off data definitely find value in lack of privacy. Yes of course there is value in lack of privacy, but what is value in privacy ?
    - couchridr 5y ago
      The basic problem is that people undervalue data about themselves. They don’t imagine the kinds of conclusions that can be made, or the consequences. It’s been more than a decade, but I was impressed by this research from Allessandro Acquisti that suggested people valued their data only in the pennies. When 25 Cents is too much: An Experiment on Willingness-To-Sell and Willingness-To-Protect Personal Information, Jens Grossklags, Alessandro Acquisti, Workshop on the Economics of Information Security (WEIS), 2007
  - fuckyouriotshit 5y ago
    > I never heard any convincing argument about why privacy has value. You have either _never_ had to keep a secret (which I highly doubt, unless you happen to be a literal child) or you simply aren't arguing in good faith. Assuming that you are arguing in good faith, let's consider a potential reason why someone might value their privacy: Some people are born attracted to the same-sex (gay, lesbian, bi, pan, etc.). There are some countries where being gay is a criminal offense; there are even some countries where you can face the death penalty for this. [1] If a gay person lives in one of those countries, don't they have a right to keep this fact about themselves private simply in order to protect themselves? Or does their life have less value than the profit that can be generated by the "Data Economy"? [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_for_homosexuality https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_for_homosex...
    - TchoBeer 5y ago
      Obviously the problem is laws that outlaw homosexuality and not a lack of privacy.
      - path2power 5y ago
        To the people whose lives are at stake, what difference does it make?
        TchoBeer 5y ago
        None, but if we're looking at this situation (where the government is finding secret homosexuals and prosecuting them) and asking "what policies ought we enact to fix this" if your answer is "better privacy" that seems like it's looking at the wrong problem.
        shkkmo 5y ago
        You are assuming that perfect and fair governance is a reasonably achievable state. Reality begs to differ. In reality, there are people in the USA who are in the closet or of fear of persecution by their communities. Privacy provides a fundemental protection from persecution by your government. This is precisely why the constitution includes specific privacy protections. So while we should fight governments that persecute homosexuality, we also need to protect at least some aspects of privacy to keep protections for the next persecuted group.
hh3k0 5y ago
> From reading this list, I can deduce OP just made up most of them, because over half of them contains details that are total BS. Care to specify which list entries you have trouble believing?
Cederfjard 5y ago
What a complete and utter nightmare. You say that you think this would lead to a better society. That aside, how would you personally feel if this vision was to become reality? For me, I’m certain my mind being totally exposed like that would lead to debilitating mental illness and possibly even the loss of the will to live. I can’t imagine human beings, either as individuals or a collective, being fundamentally equipped to deal with such a thing.
- lanstin 5y ago
  Did you ever read David Brin's The Transparent Society (used to be a web article, I think it might be a book now). He argues that as networking and miniaturization progress, and given the curiosity of 9 year olds, we have 2 choices: everyone has all data about everyone else, or, the powerful (gov't corps rich) have all data about everyone else, and the powerful have privacy. I'm not sure if I think that's true, but I can't really think of a counter-argument. If someone can slip cameras into what looks to me like gnats and film my bathing, well, my bathing isn't so exciting, but how can we prevent it? Some weird EM shielding arms race on nano-bots or something? And still all the sound I utter will be recorded. I wouldn't want to live on a planet with no insects. If I were 9 and I had a "build your own flying gnat" kit, pretty sure I might try to find out about what naked people look like. Now I grew up in a relatively repressed family and society, so maybe the cool Europeans have a different take on it. Maybe if there's 10M "watch people all the time" public channels with video feeds from all over the planet, peoples mental health would adjust somehow. I suspect we'll find out. Most people (that I talk to in real life) are stolidly uninterested in the "omg, do you know what the data people are gathering thru your phone" facts. I for sure don't want to live in a society where the powerful have privacy and none of the regular people do.
  - Cederfjard 5y ago
    All I can say is that this line of thinking makes me feel that we might be in for a bleak future indeed.
volkk 5y ago
i'd be happy to be hung from the gallows than live in such a world
matz1 5y ago
This is the way to go in the future. It will be more and more impractical, very costly, and inconvenient to hide information as technology get better. The problem that need to be solves is not how to hide information but how to fix the issue that arise when the information are public. Lets talk about one example : Right now it is a problem if my credit card number become public because it can be used for unauthorized purchase. Simply having my credit card number become public is not an issue perse but for it to be used for unauthorized purchase is the problem. But what if I can have my credit card number public while nobody can use it for unauthorized purchase ? then I won't have issue for it being public.
- janto 5y ago
  You'd still need to keep something private like a PIN or private key.
  - matz1 5y ago
    Why ? because some one could stole my money or because someone else could log in without my authorization? What if there is a way to prevent that without PIN or private key ?
    - Jorengarenar 5y ago
      Both because someone could stole your money or authorize unwanted action. What other way of preventing that do you propose? Fingerprint? I will will send the data of fingerprint. Facial recognition? I will just grab your profile picture. What kind of method do you envise that could prove you are you and not somebody malicious?
      - matz1 5y ago
        I'm obviously not the expert, my point is we should try to seek the solution to the problem that arise when the information is public instead of trying to hide the information. Here is another example: some people argue for privacy because the information can be used to criminalized gay people. Well then fix the criminalization of gay people instead of trying to hide the fact that they are gay.
kwhitefoot 5y ago
Upvoted, not because I agree with you but because it makes important points. Anyone who thinks such transparency is a good idea should read Arthur C. Clarke and Stephen Baxter's Light of Other Days: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Light_of_Other_Days https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Light_of_Other_Days
reaperducer 5y ago
I happen to think we'd be a better society if we all knew everything about each other. You should set the example. Go ahead and post your e-mail address and password for us.

by slver 5y ago

shkkmo 5y ago

The worst thing about the information economy of today is absolutely the inequality of access. We would be better off if everything that is collected was public. I don't think that means we don't need privacy. It absolutely has value. The problem is when privacy is only available to the rich and powerful, while the details about the rest of us are hoarded and used by the very same powerful people who pay such a premium for their privacy. If we allow the collection of information, that information should absolutely be public, but that doesn't mean we should allow everything to be collected.

matz1 5y ago
>I don't think that means we don't need privacy. It absolutely has value. I never heard any convincing argument about why privacy has value. >but that doesn't mean we should allow everything to be collected. Why ?
- deep-root 5y ago
  Perhaps you'd like some privacy to surprise a significant other with your purchase, rather than it show up on their Venmo feed in real-time.
  - matz1 5y ago
    Good example but there so much information a person can keep up with so surprise can still possible.
- wyre 5y ago
  People spend money on privacy. This gives it value. I don’t know anyone that would want to spend money on a hotel if there was a security camera in the room. I would get the more expensive room without the camera, probably go to a different hotel. Doctor and patient confidentiality is implicitly understood. Do you think doctors should be able to tell advertisers what their patients are going through. Maybe your own individual privacy doesn’t have value to you, and that’s okay, but other people value their privacy, and these corps profiting off data definitely find value in lack of privacy.
  - matz1 5y ago
    >I don’t know anyone that would want to spend money on a hotel if there was a security camera in the room why do you think is that ? >Do you think doctors should be able to tell advertisers what their patients are going through Why do you think they shouldn't ? >these corps profiting off data definitely find value in lack of privacy. Yes of course there is value in lack of privacy, but what is value in privacy ?
  - couchridr 5y ago
    The basic problem is that people undervalue data about themselves. They don’t imagine the kinds of conclusions that can be made, or the consequences. It’s been more than a decade, but I was impressed by this research from Allessandro Acquisti that suggested people valued their data only in the pennies. When 25 Cents is too much: An Experiment on Willingness-To-Sell and Willingness-To-Protect Personal Information, Jens Grossklags, Alessandro Acquisti, Workshop on the Economics of Information Security (WEIS), 2007
- fuckyouriotshit 5y ago
  > I never heard any convincing argument about why privacy has value. You have either _never_ had to keep a secret (which I highly doubt, unless you happen to be a literal child) or you simply aren't arguing in good faith. Assuming that you are arguing in good faith, let's consider a potential reason why someone might value their privacy: Some people are born attracted to the same-sex (gay, lesbian, bi, pan, etc.). There are some countries where being gay is a criminal offense; there are even some countries where you can face the death penalty for this. [1] If a gay person lives in one of those countries, don't they have a right to keep this fact about themselves private simply in order to protect themselves? Or does their life have less value than the profit that can be generated by the "Data Economy"? [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_for_homosexuality https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_for_homosex...
  - TchoBeer 5y ago
    Obviously the problem is laws that outlaw homosexuality and not a lack of privacy.
    - path2power 5y ago
      To the people whose lives are at stake, what difference does it make?
      - TchoBeer 5y ago
        None, but if we're looking at this situation (where the government is finding secret homosexuals and prosecuting them) and asking "what policies ought we enact to fix this" if your answer is "better privacy" that seems like it's looking at the wrong problem.
        shkkmo 5y ago
        You are assuming that perfect and fair governance is a reasonably achievable state. Reality begs to differ. In reality, there are people in the USA who are in the closet or of fear of persecution by their communities. Privacy provides a fundemental protection from persecution by your government. This is precisely why the constitution includes specific privacy protections. So while we should fight governments that persecute homosexuality, we also need to protect at least some aspects of privacy to keep protections for the next persecuted group.

hh3k0 5y ago

> From reading this list, I can deduce OP just made up most of them, because over half of them contains details that are total BS. Care to specify which list entries you have trouble believing?

Cederfjard 5y ago

What a complete and utter nightmare. You say that you think this would lead to a better society. That aside, how would you personally feel if this vision was to become reality? For me, I’m certain my mind being totally exposed like that would lead to debilitating mental illness and possibly even the loss of the will to live. I can’t imagine human beings, either as individuals or a collective, being fundamentally equipped to deal with such a thing.

lanstin 5y ago
Did you ever read David Brin's The Transparent Society (used to be a web article, I think it might be a book now). He argues that as networking and miniaturization progress, and given the curiosity of 9 year olds, we have 2 choices: everyone has all data about everyone else, or, the powerful (gov't corps rich) have all data about everyone else, and the powerful have privacy. I'm not sure if I think that's true, but I can't really think of a counter-argument. If someone can slip cameras into what looks to me like gnats and film my bathing, well, my bathing isn't so exciting, but how can we prevent it? Some weird EM shielding arms race on nano-bots or something? And still all the sound I utter will be recorded. I wouldn't want to live on a planet with no insects. If I were 9 and I had a "build your own flying gnat" kit, pretty sure I might try to find out about what naked people look like. Now I grew up in a relatively repressed family and society, so maybe the cool Europeans have a different take on it. Maybe if there's 10M "watch people all the time" public channels with video feeds from all over the planet, peoples mental health would adjust somehow. I suspect we'll find out. Most people (that I talk to in real life) are stolidly uninterested in the "omg, do you know what the data people are gathering thru your phone" facts. I for sure don't want to live in a society where the powerful have privacy and none of the regular people do.
- Cederfjard 5y ago
  All I can say is that this line of thinking makes me feel that we might be in for a bleak future indeed.

volkk 5y ago

i'd be happy to be hung from the gallows than live in such a world

matz1 5y ago

This is the way to go in the future. It will be more and more impractical, very costly, and inconvenient to hide information as technology get better. The problem that need to be solves is not how to hide information but how to fix the issue that arise when the information are public. Lets talk about one example : Right now it is a problem if my credit card number become public because it can be used for unauthorized purchase. Simply having my credit card number become public is not an issue perse but for it to be used for unauthorized purchase is the problem. But what if I can have my credit card number public while nobody can use it for unauthorized purchase ? then I won't have issue for it being public.

janto 5y ago
You'd still need to keep something private like a PIN or private key.
- matz1 5y ago
  Why ? because some one could stole my money or because someone else could log in without my authorization? What if there is a way to prevent that without PIN or private key ?
  - Jorengarenar 5y ago
    Both because someone could stole your money or authorize unwanted action. What other way of preventing that do you propose? Fingerprint? I will will send the data of fingerprint. Facial recognition? I will just grab your profile picture. What kind of method do you envise that could prove you are you and not somebody malicious?
    - matz1 5y ago
      I'm obviously not the expert, my point is we should try to seek the solution to the problem that arise when the information is public instead of trying to hide the information. Here is another example: some people argue for privacy because the information can be used to criminalized gay people. Well then fix the criminalization of gay people instead of trying to hide the fact that they are gay.

kwhitefoot 5y ago

Upvoted, not because I agree with you but because it makes important points. Anyone who thinks such transparency is a good idea should read Arthur C. Clarke and Stephen Baxter's Light of Other Days: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Light_of_Other_Days https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Light_of_Other_Days

reaperducer 5y ago

I happen to think we'd be a better society if we all knew everything about each other. You should set the example. Go ahead and post your e-mail address and password for us.